[dev1210] Why Not Merit Weaponskills ??

[Malithar]

You seem to be looking at the merit system differently than others of us. To me, merits are that little bit of extra for the jobs I truly enjoy. I max out sword merits and its "Now I'm a little bit better when using a sword". If I'm interpreting you right, if you don't put any merits in sword, you see it as your sword skill not being capped. The only thing I could see as a hinderence to another job is the emnity+/-, just because some jobs want the hate and others don't.

This is reminding me of when I played D&D. I pick a rough idea of what I wanted with my character, and would maybe end up with 2 or 3 classes. Other people would spend hours trying to min/max everything they did trying to take 1 or 2 levels from 10 different jobs, then complain to the DM that the experience penalty for multiclassing was unfair.

I understand that there might be tradeoffs to being strong in one area but having to become weaker in another and I'm O.K. with that. But not everybody thinks that way.

I like this post.

It's pretty close to how I view the system.

However, to expand a bit on the D&D bit, it's a bit different of a view. While in D&D, or WoW, or any other MMO where your character selects a class, a path, etc, and retains that path through their life, its far different in FFXI. From the onset, you're given 22 jobs, all of which can have any of those same jobs subbed. Makes for a rather in depth system. Unlike those other games, you're able to change your job to suit your needs, rather than say, make a hybrid character that's capable of healing, DDing, and taking a few hits, but at the cost of higher tier specialized abilities.

Considering that your character's job can be changed to suit your needs at will, that's where the merit cap doesn't make sense, IMO. Trade offs on a per job basis are fine, but when your choices for one job affect another job, it's no longer about tradeoffs to be strong in one area but weaker in another, as those tradeoffs are very likely not even incorporated in the job you're playing.

[Afania]

I like this post.

It's pretty close to how I view the system.

However, to expand a bit on the D&D bit, it's a bit different of a view. While in D&D, or WoW, or any other MMO where your character selects a class, a path, etc, and retains that path through their life, its far different in FFXI. From the onset, you're given 22 jobs, all of which can have any of those same jobs subbed. Makes for a rather in depth system. Unlike those other games, you're able to change your job to suit your needs, rather than say, make a hybrid character that's capable of healing, DDing, and taking a few hits, but at the cost of higher tier specialized abilities.

Considering that your character's job can be changed to suit your needs at will, that's where the merit cap doesn't make sense, IMO. Trade offs on a per job basis are fine, but when your choices for one job affect another job, it's no longer about tradeoffs to be strong in one area but weaker in another, as those tradeoffs are very likely not even incorporated in the job you're playing.

Let's say, if you're playing another MMORPG with a talent tree you can pick between DD Paladin or tank Paladin. If you pick DD paladin your character will suck at PVE and but good at PVP, and vice versa, tank Paladin will be useful in PVE but suck at PVP. You don't get "full functionality" with talent tree.

Isn't that the same thing as FFXI merit point system? If you have STR DEX merit your character will shine on WAR when you're in a content that benefits WAR, but you won't shine as much on BLM in a content that benefits BLM. And vice versa, your BLM will shine in a content that needs magic burn and suck in a content that melee works.

Honestly there really isn't much difference between talent tree and merit point.

[Demonjustin]

Let's say, if you're playing another MMORPG with a talent tree you can pick between DD Paladin or tank Paladin. If you pick DD paladin your character will suck at PVE and but good at PVP, and vice versa, tank Paladin will be useful in PVE but suck at PVP. You don't get "full functionality" with talent tree.

Isn't that the same thing as FFXI merit point system? If you have STR DEX merit your character will shine on WAR when you're in a content that benefits WAR, but you won't shine as much on BLM in a content that benefits BLM. And vice versa, your BLM will shine in a content that needs magic burn and suck in a content that melee works.

Honestly there really isn't much difference between talent tree and merit point.

A talent tree is based on a job, not a character, merit points are character based. If I merit STR & DEX then all jobs get STR & DEX, the fact my WHM will never melee and my RDM is often neglected in that field doesn't change the fact that those are 2 highly vital stats for when I do melee and thus as such I have picked them for my entire character no matter what job I'm on. It's a large distinctive difference than what you're talking about, on the other hand if you want to compare that to job specific merits then that's one thing, but those are terrible as well as almost all of the categories are stuck with only a couple good choices and a bunch of bad ones which really takes away any chance of being unique without gimping yourself.

Lastly you have the job specific categories that are just flat out bad for some jobs and limit what the job itself can even do, for instance a RDM and a SCH/RDM can do almost the exact same in terms of enfeebling when it comes to both accuracy and potency. RDM gets an extremely small step ahead in both due to gear and Job Points but the only thing that lets RDM truly set itself apart from others in either are merits in 2 of 6 spells which still limits the job terribly. These are the ones that are most comparable to a skill tree and they are truly the worst kind in this game because it's the only thing that sets some jobs apart, while other jobs like MNK have only 2 real choices to begin with and if you don't pick those, you're gimping yourself.

[Afania]

A talent tree is based on a job, not a character, merit points are character based.

Talent tree is character based because you can only have 1 job/class in other MMO. Your class= your character. If you build your character that way it'd play that way in every content, which means no full functionality depending on what you do.

Honestly I don't see the difference - -.

[Demonjustin]

Honestly I don't see the difference - -.

Which is your problem. The fact you can't change your class in other games is part of the restrictive nature of other MMOs, part of the stand out features of FFXI is that it doesn't limit you in this way. This is why it's been said consistently that merit points limiting you is the antithesis of the game's nature, other games limit your character to 1 job, that 1 job to 1 path, that path to a certain set of skills and points, resulting in a unique character, but FFXI limits you in none of those ways except merits. This is the difference, and it's a very large one in the end. Put simply, you're comparing apples to oranges.

[PlumbGame]

Which is your problem. The fact you can't change your class in other games is part of the restrictive nature of other MMOs, part of the stand out features of FFXI is that it doesn't limit you in this way. This is why it's been said consistently that merit points limiting you is the antithesis of the game's nature, other games limit your character to 1 job, that 1 job to 1 path, that path to a certain set of skills and points, resulting in a unique character, but FFXI limits you in none of those ways except merits. This is the difference, and it's a very large one in the end. Put simply, you're comparing apples to oranges.

Also, that has been consistently pointed out, it doesn't.