Quote Originally Posted by Rubeus View Post
@Demonjustin: I understand where you're coming from. I do. It's not that I don't. But you're STILL neglecting the whole picture in regards to RDM. Here, I'll do the work for you to prove my point:
pillager/plunderer total +dex: +140

atrophy/vitivation total +dex: +96

hume male base dex on thf/dnc: 97

hume male base dex on rdm/dnc: 89

total difference in dex between a 119 rdm and a 119 thf, visible armor only: 52.

RDM dex in such a case if it were lvl 119 and not ghetto 119: 185

you're telling me that with +96 dex as a NATURAL state before any gear is considered at a REAL 119, your RDM has something to complain about in terms of accuracy/crit? I challenge you to find 1 mob in the game that isn't -real- content (in which RDM should probably be casting and supporting its party as opposed to meleeing) whereupon your dexterity score is going to be the deciding factor between the 1 hit or crit that would've killed said mob vs total defeat for you and/or your group. I would say Einherjar, as that's the only highly-time-limited event in which I can imagine a RDM meleeing being a crucial aspect of defeating all the mobs, but at 99 you're already at capped pdif anyway.

But you're not just saying dex. you're saying all stats. You're getting at the whole ball of wax, and I understand that. It's not that I don't understand that. It's that you don't see (to me) that if your character were wearing an Ark Scythe and Stumbling Sandals and nothing else, you'd still be at 185 dex. And presumably somewhere near 200 on all your other stats, and your pdif would be a non-issue for accuracy/evasion/all those other sprinkled stats involving magic and doing stuff.

No offense, and I have a very high degree of respect for you, but that sounds a lot like wanting to have your cake and eat it too. "But I'm still missing 52 dex over thief. :\" well yeah dude. It's thief. They kind of need it more than you do. 185 isn't high enough for you? ALL your stats being 185+ aren't high enough for you? I'm staring at my RDM/DNC right now and his lowest stat is VIT at 84, so presumably you'd be in the ballpark of 170 VIT at 119 naked. But you'd also have Rapture, Ebullience, and a third strategem charge at the much more useful RDM/SCH combo. I mean, me personally? I'd even be willing to take the same exact VIT I have right now just to be able to do that. That's practically a divine seal and a diffused amplification every other minute.

Yes, it's only +21 to all stats -- for the body piece -- but, and I hate to KEEP repeating myself: so what? Go find me some serious content that can be solo'd or in which YOUR stat differential makes all the difference and tell me that 185-ish to any stat isn't enough. At that rate, why don't we just petition for primeval brews to be a non-temp item? Because that's what it sounds like to me.
Well to answer the question of serious content, I quite honestly melee in high end content. I do 119 Delves and Difficult Merit Point NM battles on my RDM with /NIN. The one I have the most experience with is Gessho due to a friend of mine trying desperately for the head piece for his NIN and Gessho is no push over. His EVA is quite high and in my full Accuracy TP set I only cap accuracy with Composure, Gain-DEX, Sushi+1, and Madrigals. While I admit I'm the exception to the rule in this fact since you'd have a hard time finding any other RDM who probably even enters Difficult MPNMs let alone melees in them as a DD, losing some of these stats would truly hurt my ability to participate in the content. I understand where you're coming from but in the end it would hurt the job, 52 DEX for instance is a massive loss to me, that's around 39 Accuracy I believe that I'd lose in the process. Mind you I'm stacking a ton of Accuracy as it is that's not easy at all to make up for. The other thing to look at is the defensive stats which I know the same arguments apply to, that RDM is a RDM not a THF and thus doesn't need the same kinda EVA or DEF they'd get, but it does hurt the job. Right now my gear I use for TPing for instance is 55 over my Atrophy/Vitivation gives, normally not much but even in old content this can matter for RDM since our EVA is really low to begin with, even in this gear I don't cap EVA rate on the pathetic 110 Delve NMs.

I'm not saying it's the most important thing in the world, but it would hurt me if they did this change.



As for the subjob thing... while yes some subjobs would become more powerful potentially such as /SCH getting extra strats and charges(as well as Stona!) I really don't think they'd do that for us anyways. I think they'd more quickly go with the merit leveling idea(one which I like by the way though it'd much more likely be Job Points), if they did that though it'd remove the chance of getting extra subjob abilities and such since our stats would only increase via Merits/JPs rather than a true level up. In either case, it's a nice thought but I doubt if they did remove item level that we'd get that too as a result.



People are advocating for the ilvl system with this REALLY slipshod logic. "well, it's not like the bst axes are -THAT- big a deal or -THAT- hard to get." "well, I'd lose X stat that I really wouldn't have in spades if it weren't for ilvl." "well, I'd have to grind a bunch of xp to level up all my jobs."... so you want to keep a system that's butchering the game because it isn't -super- inconvenient? Is it that easy to pacify most players?

Maybe I'm the only one who really sat there and got my first 119 piece by grinding the rem's tales. That's got to be the reason. Clearly, you don't seem to understand exactly what "grinding xp" is all about until you've done that. Go do me a favor and grind yourself exactly 1 piece of Artifact 119 from it's non-109 level and then come back on this thread and tell me exactly how long that took you. Now go do it for 4 other pieces or suck it up and do the SKCNMs and the ark angels. Now do that for 22 jobs.
While I won't say it's exactly fair, this character I'm using to post actually has gotten quite a few chapters with sparks, it's all I use his sparks for, so that I don't have to do 109 or 119 fights on him till he's ready for it. I don't think it's fair to use him as an example though since his sparks are all from leveling and are really more of a side thing than intentionally farming for them. That said, I have farmed sparks before with the intent of getting 119 armor. No it wasn't all from that and not even close to doing it for all 22 jobs, but BLM can quite easily farm sparks honestly just by repeating the kill multiple mobs and 500+ DMG ones. I do get your point though, and I admit they are flaws to the system.

Ilvl is terrible. How many ways do you need it explained to you and in how many languages?
I agree it's terrible in many respects, but they are trying to fix it up, and there would be damage done to the game, jobs, pieces of gear, and player's time spent on gear were it removed. I'm not saying I necessarily want to keep it, but I won't lie and say if they removed it tomorrow part of me wouldn't be angry that they did. Part of me wants it to stay, part of me wants it to go, I honestly do think at this time that keeping it does less harm though.