Ninja Ability Suggestion

[Kincard]

you are one person; one like to 6 likes.

So? Unless you're telling me you think a total of 7 people play this game this has nothing to do with anything. I'm sure you know what selection bias is. Please try posting this suggestion on any of the community sites that have a higher traffic than this place and I can prove nothing too.

Then you were wrong.

I'm only wrong insofar as it being useful in xp parties, and do you really think NIN needs to be able to get EXP faster at this point? Outside of that it was a gimmick that never basically never did more overall damage than katanas, unless you want to give me something other than cherry picked spike numbers.

Try using an elemental ninjutsu nuke in level 99 gear on Botulus Rex or hell, if you want Abyssea, even something like Rani. It was a gimmick.

Abyssea was the $hit back then

Yes, and? Abyssea has inflated stats that are even high compared to ilevel gear, so the only place Abyssea numbers are relevant are in Abyssea. Unless they announce they're giving us a global +30% crit hit rate/attack, +200 MAB and +100 to all base stats (well, we're about getting there for that last one I guess) then what happens in Abyssea doesn't apply anywhere the rest of the game, otherwise people would still invite NINs.

Not really, throwing is a range attack, thus reliant on range acc, if you gear for melee; there will be a shuriken whiff fest.

I'm sure if I wore MAB gear while using Blade: Hi I'd do crappy damage too. What's your point? How does that in any way invalidate the idea of making a ranged autoattack? Obviously if I'm going to go into "ranged autoattack" or whatever I'm going to be wearing ranged armor instead.

again; throwing stance will need an overhaul because....it does not exist in-game? And throwing is useless atm?

You clearly stated that we should be asking for a overhaul to throwing, but you acknowledged that this stance would require just that, which is the point of this thread.

I've been trying to reiterate the point over and over that a throwing stance implies that you're asking for something that fits into the current structure of the game, which is a waste of time trying to ask for. I didn't say anything about overhauling a ranged stance, I said overhaul ranged attacks in general, there's a very big difference and I'm flummoxed how you don't seem to understand what I'm saying after about 5 posts of it.

The OP doesn't actually specifically want a ranged stance- he wants shurikens to be good, and the stance is supposed to be the means to the end. I'm saying that route will not fix anything unless it is something along the lines of velocity shot x3, so the smarter idea is to simply change how ranged attacks work in general, or ideas like the one you threw out earlier by making shuriken a skillchain opener. If they revamp ranged attacks in general a stance wouldn't be necessary, and if they didn't it'd wouldn't help.

If people really wanted to make a ranged attack NIN, a more realistic thing to ask for is actually to ask for NIN's marksmanship skill to be increased and then giving NIN access to newer guns and bullets, because the gun NIN was a build that was actually usable on endgame content in place of a RNG.

So, did a dev say that [throwing WS] was impossible to implement or is this your assumption?

They have talked about it multiple times in the past and the answer was always "no", and they always stated something about the system not being able to support it or something. Honestly, given all the other stuff they've changed their minds about lately, I wouldn't rule it out completely.

throwing was not always useless, clearly you have never been a shuriken ninja if you believe that it is useless. Crappy now? Yes, but don't pretend like throwing never had a place. perhaps I am the ninja master or something, but i did great with shurikens at one point.

Yes, we already know how you think shurikens were useful at level 50. Can we please talk about level 99 and how it is almost impossible for shuriken to be good at this level? Cherry picking 3k damage spikes on exp monsters once every 5 minutes is not something useful.

[Darwena]

The way game evolved shuroken won't get any shine unless it's use as proc. This is a simple way to put it up.

Let's say:

A job ability than work like kick attack, mean once actives, 20% chance of throwing attack with main hand regular attack. That proc also give us x TP, you need to have shurikens equipped (like battery ammo for lightning proc on certain polearm).

About spike dmg in abyssea, wells its abyssea: A WHM could deal badass dmg with right atma so...

The real problem with Ninja nowadays is: every cool thing with ninja is available to every other job as support job (.../NIN) and almost do better in everything than NIN/... And I don't think adding shurikens will make ninja wanted again.

About ninja tanking, since XP party are gone, event need a meat shield like PLD. Ninja can't really do the job. As DD, well every job can do it better. Magic? Enfeebling? Peoples will get a RDM or BLU instead. So what ninja could bring in a event? Soloing? Pets job are much better at it. Stop saying at lv40-60-75 ninja are awesome, event are lv99 now.

So, what role ninja can fill today?

[WoW]

So? Unless you're telling me you think a total of 7 people play this game this has nothing to do with anything. I'm sure you know what selection bias is. Please try posting this suggestion on any of the community sites that have a higher traffic than this place and I can prove nothing too.

It is a fact, get over it.

I'm only wrong insofar as it being useful in xp parties, and do you really think NIN needs to be able to get EXP faster at this point? Outside of that it was a gimmick that never basically never did more overall damage than katanas, unless you want to give me something other than cherry picked spike numbers.

Bottom line, you said it was useless past 40; you were wrong I used it at 99.

Try using an elemental ninjutsu nuke in level 99 gear on Botulus Rex or hell, if you want Abyssea, even something like Rani. It was a gimmick.

Sure, but that was not your original stance; you stated it was useless past 40, then it was implied that it was ok at 99, then you never said was good at 99, now you think it is useless on bosses outside abssyea. You keep changing your stance to fit your arguments. yes it is weak on bosses, but strong in abyssea.

Yes, and? Abyssea has inflated stats that are even high compared to ilevel gear, so the only place Abyssea numbers are relevant are in Abyssea. Unless they announce they're giving us a global +30% crit hit rate/attack, +200 MAB and +100 to all base stats (well, we're about getting there for that last one I guess) then what happens in Abyssea doesn't apply anywhere the rest of the game, otherwise people would still invite NINs.

Answer this question, is nin nuking good in abyssea yes or no? Yes other jobs flourish in abyssea, but you stated it was useless post 40.

I'm sure if I wore MAB gear while using Blade: Hi I'd do crappy damage too. What's your point? How does that in any way invalidate the idea of making a ranged autoattack? Obviously if I'm going to go into "ranged autoattack" or whatever I'm going to be wearing ranged armor instead.


Shurikens are a range weapon, hence need range acc to land; melee gear will not cut it.

I've been trying to reiterate the point over and over that a throwing stance implies that you're asking for something that fits into the current structure of the game, which is a waste of time trying to ask for. I didn't say anything about overhauling a ranged stance, I said overhaul ranged attacks in general, there's a very big difference and I'm flummoxed how you don't seem to understand what I'm saying after about 5 posts of it.

But a throwing overhaul is a overhaul nonetheless, right? You stated that we should be asking for a overhaul to throwing...ummm, a stance will be just that. Throwing is throwing. keep backpeddling tho^^ It is quite comical

The OP doesn't actually specifically want a ranged stance- he wants shurikens to be good, and the stance is supposed to be the means to the end. I'm saying that route will not fix anything unless it is something along the lines of velocity shot x3, so the smarter idea is to simply change how ranged attacks work in general, or ideas like the one you threw out earlier by making shuriken a skillchain opener. If they revamp ranged attacks in general a stance wouldn't be necessary, and if they didn't it'd wouldn't help.

Did you not read my previous post? I stated that a stance did not have to be necessary for me personally.

If people really wanted to make a ranged attack NIN, a more realistic thing to ask for is actually to ask for NIN's marksmanship skill to be increased and then giving NIN access to newer guns and bullets, because the gun NIN was a build that was actually usable on endgame content in place of a RNG.

Using what ws?

They have talked about it multiple times in the past and the answer was always "no", and they always stated something about the system not being able to support it or something. Honestly, given all the other stuff they've changed their minds about lately, I wouldn't rule it out completely.

Again, is this your assumption or did a dev directly state this?
because this is completely different than your orginal stance; you are backpeddling into oblivion.

Yes, we already know how you think shurikens were useful at level 50. Can we please talk about level 99 and how it is almost impossible for shuriken to be good at this level? Cherry picking 3k damage spikes on exp monsters once every 5 minutes is not something useful.

I just wanted to see you backpeddle some more, thanks for admitting you were wrong. Shurikens are useful; at 99? nah (Which is the point of the thread, why would we want a overhaul if it was useful at 99, contradiction much brah?)

[WoW]

The way game evolved shuroken won't get any shine unless it's use as proc. This is a simple way to put it up.

Let's say:

A job ability than work like kick attack, mean once actives, 20% chance of throwing attack with main hand regular attack. That proc also give us x TP, you need to have shurikens equipped (like battery ammo for lightning proc on certain polearm).

About spike dmg in abyssea, wells its abyssea: A WHM could deal badass dmg with right atma so...

The real problem with Ninja nowadays is: every cool thing with ninja is available to every other job as support job (.../NIN) and almost do better in everything than NIN/... And I don't think adding shurikens will make ninja wanted again.

About ninja tanking, since XP party are gone, event need a meat shield like PLD. Ninja can't really do the job. As DD, well every job can do it better. Magic? Enfeebling? Peoples will get a RDM or BLU instead. So what ninja could bring in a event? Soloing? Pets job are much better at it. Stop saying at lv40-60-75 ninja are awesome, event are lv99 now.

So, what role ninja can fill today?

DD/tank get rid of Innin stance requirement and penalty which would equate to having +30% critical hit rate and magic attack damage. Add a sizable amount of magic attack to 106+ katanas, including REM. Give ninja high lvl shurikens and make sange an instant JA, give nin JA shuriken attack with skillchain properties like I previously mentioned; Nin will be back in biz^^

Guys, I was one of the crazy ppl that used shurikens, trust me, a critical hit sange like JA on a short timer will be deadly. I had a sange macro way back when; I would pull with this and completely level mobs if all hits landed (5 is alot of hits; especially if it is instant and crit, it also adds tp aswell). Now, if we had another JA shuriken attack with skillchain properties, akin to Konzen-ittai, but a damaging ability, as opposed to a chainbound animation; this could open the door for shurikens and ninjustu working in unison. For instance; Innin > Blade Hi > "Crtical hit shuriken JA/WS" =skillchain darkness > magic burst hyoton. I do not believe this is too far-fetched.

Also, as it pertains to abyssea ninja, Darwena, Kin stated that nin nuking was useless post 40 and I just simply stated that is was not; I was outnuking nearly everyone on Nin/rdm, one-shotting dolls in abyssea, pre-delve. I don't understand why ppl keep dissecting this; i used nin/rdm and was deadly in abyssea, like you said, it is abyssea, big deal. Kin stated it was useless past lvl40 and he was wrong. Useless: "not fulfilling or not expected to achieve the intended purpose or desired outcome." It fulfilled my needs as a azure killer, what is the big deal you guys, lol......I also used it to enfeeble outside.

[predatory]

Nice find, forgot about that thread. Lol, @a 146dmg weapon being impossible (Pre-delve)they did mentioned a relic shuriken; hmmmm.

If they do not want to implement a throwing stance; fine, however, i would still like a use for shurikens. I have never seen a job with so many A grade skills that were completely useless. At the very least turn sange into an instant attack; remove innin stance requirement, and give us a shuriken ws/JA. When you take a step back and observe the current situation, all of our suggestions will need a revamp/re-haul. For instance; shurikens can go off during strikes, but they are range weapons; therefore are affected by ranged acc. Low acc could equate to misses, notably on harder mobs. A stance would need more of a complete overhaul, but it will fall in line with the current range acc/att gear because it is a stance, which focuses on range attack.

However, what do you guys/gals think of this; our katanas having some magic attack on them, a shuriken which possess stats aswell (+throwing skill, attack, and acc), also, a shuriken attack JA that has skillchain properties. For instance Blade Hi > "Insert shuriken name"= darkness self sc then magic burst with Hyoton san or something. This should be efficient, if our 106+ katanas had magic attack on them (The shuriken can have +throwingskill, acc, and att); this way a ninja could function without having to sacrifice haste and whatnot.

Edit: The JA could have a reasonable recast; say 2 mins? Doing the aforementioned may make nin a efficient job once again, Notably removing the innin stance requirement. Imo, the boost should decay from the front, but not from the back.

I'm for your argument, I'd love to see nin get it's place back as an alternate tank, and i can see high damage low delay shurikans with racc and ratt, but not skill, maybe put throwing skill on one of the katanas that would be cool. Skill doesn't belong in an ammo slot, but if they put it on shurikens I want it on arrows.

[WoW]

So? Unless you're telling me you think a total of 7 people play this game this has nothing to do with anything. I'm sure you know what selection bias is. Please try posting this suggestion on any of the community sites that have a higher traffic than this place and I can prove nothing too.



I'm only wrong insofar as it being useful in xp parties, and do you really think NIN needs to be able to get EXP faster at this point? Outside of that it was a gimmick that never basically never did more overall damage than katanas, unless you want to give me something other than cherry picked spike numbers.

Try using an elemental ninjutsu nuke in level 99 gear on Botulus Rex or hell, if you want Abyssea, even something like Rani. It was a gimmick.



Yes, and? Abyssea has inflated stats that are even high compared to ilevel gear, so the only place Abyssea numbers are relevant are in Abyssea. Unless they announce they're giving us a global +30% crit hit rate/attack, +200 MAB and +100 to all base stats (well, we're about getting there for that last one I guess) then what happens in Abyssea doesn't apply anywhere the rest of the game, otherwise people would still invite NINs.



I'm sure if I wore MAB gear while using Blade: Hi I'd do crappy damage too. What's your point? How does that in any way invalidate the idea of making a ranged autoattack? Obviously if I'm going to go into "ranged autoattack" or whatever I'm going to be wearing ranged armor instead.




I've been trying to reiterate the point over and over that a throwing stance implies that you're asking for something that fits into the current structure of the game, which is a waste of time trying to ask for. I didn't say anything about overhauling a ranged stance, I said overhaul ranged attacks in general, there's a very big difference and I'm flummoxed how you don't seem to understand what I'm saying after about 5 posts of it.

The OP doesn't actually specifically want a ranged stance- he wants shurikens to be good, and the stance is supposed to be the means to the end. I'm saying that route will not fix anything unless it is something along the lines of velocity shot x3, so the smarter idea is to simply change how ranged attacks work in general, or ideas like the one you threw out earlier by making shuriken a skillchain opener. If they revamp ranged attacks in general a stance wouldn't be necessary, and if they didn't it'd wouldn't help.

If people really wanted to make a ranged attack NIN, a more realistic thing to ask for is actually to ask for NIN's marksmanship skill to be increased and then giving NIN access to newer guns and bullets, because the gun NIN was a build that was actually usable on endgame content in place of a RNG.



They have talked about it multiple times in the past and the answer was always "no", and they always stated something about the system not being able to support it or something. Honestly, given all the other stuff they've changed their minds about lately, I wouldn't rule it out completely.



Yes, we already know how you think shurikens were useful at level 50. Can we please talk about level 99 and how it is almost impossible for shuriken to be good at this level? Cherry picking 3k damage spikes on exp monsters once every 5 minutes is not something useful.

MMORGs are a gimmick; but abyssea was akin to delve back then, the main attraction. Also, it did take alliances to take down bosses (With super powers); delve and the level cap eased the difficulty tremendously. This whole game is full of gimmicks, even delve has its' secrets pertaining to bosses. In due time delve may be looked upon as a joke when harder crap is introduced.

[WoW]

I'm for your argument, I'd love to see nin get it's place back as an alternate tank, and i can see high damage low delay shurikans with racc and ratt, but not skill, maybe put throwing skill on one of the katanas that would be cool. Skill doesn't belong in an ammo slot, and if they put it on shurikens I want it on arrows.

Good point; nice to see someone critiquing my suggestion as opposed to my nin/rdm^^

Completely forgot about rngs, I agree, it should be on the katanas.

But could you guys imagine if the removed the innin stance requirement/penalty? That alone will help us out tremendously, but we still need more. My argument is to make shurikens, katanas, and ninjustu work together; they are our A grade skills after all, lol.

[WoW]

I wonder if a dev will comment on this? A way for Shurikens, katanas, and ninjustu to work in unison. Also, can the innin stance penalty be adjusted to work from the front, but does not decay from the back? It is quite difficult to hit a mob from the back now and days; personally, I can not stay behind the mob long enough to get the full benefit. if I do, on a rare occasions, the mob will eventually turn around and attack me, lol, hence I have to cancel due to the evasion penalty. Seriously, innin is a great JA, but the requirements are quite difficult to meet in this day and age with rampant dinosaurs, giant bees, and crazy dds turning the mob every which and way. This is just a player's experince with this ability since its' release.

Any high lvl shurikens on the way? We have three A grade skills, but can only use one.

Imo, it makes no sense for a nin to be either or; a thrower, melee, or nuker, how about all three simultaneously^^
I truly believe they can, I do not see why not........i am a dedicated player; have tried using ninja at its' peak; as a range thrower (Does not work at 119), nuker (Works beautifully in abyssea, but meh outside), and a melee (Now this is pretty good, however, Innin would be nice, but it is difficult to use; I have no REM, perhaps another individuals can comment on REM nin melee). These are just my experiences on ninja.

[predatory]

Good point; nice to see someone critiquing my suggestion as opposed to my nin/rdm^^

Completely forgot about rngs, I agree, it should be on the katanas.

But could you guys imagine if the removed the innin stance requirement/penalty? That alone will help us out tremendously, but we still need more. My argument is to make shurikens, katanas, and ninjustu work together; they are our A grade skills after all, lol.

I'm all for making any job stronger and more viable. SEs idea of balance was to always tear down the stronger jobs rather than strengthen the weak ones, and I've always felt that was exactly the wrong way to go, people feel frustrated when things are taken from them, and always feel much better and want to spend time ingame when they're given a boon, who knows, maybe some day SE will hire devs that understand human nature and then they may be a force to reckon with in the online gaming industry, until then i'm going to keep replying to posts that are trying to get good things for jobs, because after all the tearing down they've done over the years, it's about time for them to start building again.

[WoW]

I'm all for making any job stronger and more viable. SEs idea of balance was to always tear down the stronger jobs rather than strengthen the weak ones, and I've always felt that was exactly the wrong way to go, people feel frustrated when things are taken from them, and always feel much better and want to spend time ingame when they're given a boon, who knows, maybe some day SE will hire devs that understand human nature and then they may be a force to reckon with in the online gaming industry, until then i'm going to keep replying to posts that are trying to get good things for jobs, because after all the tearing down they've done over the years, it's about time for them to start building again.

Had to rate this up; I am a reasonable guy; I occasionally question the developers at times (Like everyone), but it is all out of frustration; it is not personal or malicious (Do not want anyone to think that; it is only a game). We just don't understand why they choose to let a plethora of jobs rot away. Will making ninja viable really hurt the game? How? Will a nin self sc with katanas and shurikens break the balance? How? The responses we do get are pretty vague; "We have no intentions on removing the innin penalty/stance. " This is not a direct quote from a dev btw, just an example. Then they go on to describe what we already know. However, all I ask is why? They rarely work with us, it is usually, a no and some explanation that does not make sense to the players whom attempted to function under the said conditions.