Alliance based content

[detlef]

Still no where near enough for the game to shut down if they all went away. The game is already at the point were it is unlikely to get another full blown expansion and it it was already well on the way when SoA was released. I am willing to bet SoA was SE plan C if FF14 had failed again like 1.0. Like he said SE would just dumb the game down a bit after seeing the clear rates drop to a unacceptable level.

I implied that a hardcore player's subscription is probably more valuable to SE, which almost certainly true. But then we haven't even nailed down what defines casual and hardcore, and if no definition is agreed upon then how can we predict what would happen if one group or the other no longer existed? All I said was that there's more to a hardcore player than $12.95 a month, and that we shouldn't underestimate their impact on SE's bottom line.

[saevel]

I implied that a hardcore player's subscription is probably more valuable to SE, which almost certainly true. But then we haven't even nailed down what defines casual and hardcore, and if no definition is agreed upon then how can we predict what would happen if one group or the other no longer existed? All I said was that there's more to a hardcore player than $12.95 a month, and that we shouldn't underestimate their impact on SE's bottom line.

It's fairly easy to separate the two. How much time do they spend not only playing the game, but reading the forums and optimizing macros and the various builds for their various jobs? The core separator is that hard core players seek entertainment in acquiring achievements and doing stuff that they believe "casuals" can't. If casual players can beat a specific content, hard cores tend to dismiss that content as "easy". Conversely casual players seek entertainment in merely playing the game, unique distinctive achievements are not required for them to feel satisfaction. They invest far less total time into the game, rarely do research and tend to just copy whatever they see other players doing.

As far as costs go, HC players are actually a bad thing from a resource perspective. Everyone, HC and casual alike, pays the same subscription fee yet HC players use far more server resources then casuals do owing to them playing more often. If you are running two accounts and I'm running one, yet your logged in 3x more often then I am, you are still using more system resources, especially if your mules are also logged in with you. Those people running 10 fishing mules at once 24/7 are taking up far more server resources then 10 individual casual players do. HC players also consume content faster then casual players do while being the ones to find and utilize exploits and thus require even more developer time to create and field test content that's "hard core" proof. The only good HC players provide to a game is that they are the ones who lead guilds and provide the information that casual players eventually follow in. You want some HC folks running around making youtube videos doing crazy stuff, but you don't want to build your game around them.

This all applies to non-competitive PvE scenarios. Competitive PvP on the other hand is like any other sport, you want your super stars (HC players) as their competitive drive is what attracts other players to join. Because FFXI has no competitive outlet for HC players to acquire those distinctive achievements, they resort to viewing event competitions and specifically loot acquisition as the distinctive achievements.

[Olor]

The only good HC players provide to a game is that they are the ones who lead guilds and provide the information that casual players eventually follow in. You want some HC folks running around making youtube videos doing crazy stuff, but you don't want to build your game around them.

Well, I have to argue a bit to the other side here - HC players ALSO help create an economy for others. Like, anyone who is buying heavy metal plates is probably not a casual player - but me, as a casual player - I want there to be demand for items like heavy metal plates.

Of course, the solution (especially now that empys etc at 119 are not generally better or much than other weapons available) could be to lower the requirements significantly to get RME to ilevel - because then a lower tier of player would see it as achievable and spend time/gil doing it. Like if the requirement was 200 HMP - more people would see that as achievable, and more people would be building them, and I expect that demand would remain steady despite the fact that it would result in a lot of stored up HMPs hitting the market. Then maybe I wouldn't throw away rift boulders because NO ONE even buys them at 1K

This would also probably be beneficial because people would probably do more of the events that drop the items, since folks would be motivated to farm them for themselves. The hardcore focused economy is VERY fragile. Relying on 50 or so players on every server to create liquidity for everyone is not smart. If you had 500 people building ilevel empy weapons, there would be a lot more interest in events like voidwatch which are open and accessible to everyone to enjoy, especially now that we have ilevel gear.

[detlef]

It's fairly easy to separate the two. How much time do they spend not only playing the game, but reading the forums and optimizing macros and the various builds for their various jobs? The core separator is that hard core players seek entertainment in acquiring achievements and doing stuff that they believe "casuals" can't. If casual players can beat a specific content, hard cores tend to dismiss that content as "easy". Conversely casual players seek entertainment in merely playing the game, unique distinctive achievements are not required for them to feel satisfaction. They invest far less total time into the game, rarely do research and tend to just copy whatever they see other players doing.

Hardcore players copy and paste gear sets, strategies, and play styles all the time. There are casual players who maximize their online time by formulating intelligent strategies and gearing sensibly and who are still driven by gear acquisition. There's too much gray area to truly determine who's who.

As far as costs go, HC players are actually a bad thing from a resource perspective. Everyone, HC and casual alike, pays the same subscription fee yet HC players use far more server resources then casuals do owing to them playing more often. If you are running two accounts and I'm running one, yet your logged in 3x more often then I am, you are still using more system resources, especially if your mules are also logged in with you. Those people running 10 fishing mules at once 24/7 are taking up far more server resources then 10 individual casual players do. HC players also consume content faster then casual players do while being the ones to find and utilize exploits and thus require even more developer time to create and field test content that's "hard core" proof. The only good HC players provide to a game is that they are the ones who lead guilds and provide the information that casual players eventually follow in. You want some HC folks running around making youtube videos doing crazy stuff, but you don't want to build your game around them.

From SE's perspective, wouldn't they secretly want a customer paying for 10 accounts? That was part of my point. Aside from that, I never said that SE should build the game around them. I'm just saying that what me might call a hardcore player's subscription is probably worth more than a casual's subscription. This paragraph you wrote agrees with me.