Alliance based content

[Draylo]

So it was announced that the new Delve will be 6-18 man and an adjustment of HP accordingly, as noted here:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...e-new-Delve-II

My question is, what incentive is there right now to have a fully functioning linkshell when there is nothing to do with them that requires it? Why would I want to have 18 people for the new Delve when it is POSSIBLE to beat it (I know it will be, or why would they have included that adjustment to do it with 6 people) when I can do it with 6 people? Why do I drag 18 people into this content when I can clear it faster with 6 people with secondary characters and not have to split the loot at all? The loot is the same regardless of players entering, what sense does this make!? If this is going to be just like the adjustment to the original delve, like was said in that post, the rewards system wont be like Divine Might. There is 0 incentive to bring an alliance.

I've seen this once before and it was with Abyssea. This caused a splinter in all linkshells and pretty much destroyed them. So then after Adoulin came out we were forced to once again gather people up to do the original Delve because it was balanced around 18 people. Then you had everyone quit for XIV and come crawling back because its boring and the people who still had a linkshell are penalized for it.

My question is, will there ever be an incentive to do alliance based content that justifies having more than 6 people in our linkshells? Everything in this entire game can be 6 manned aside from VD Divine might. The new battles they have planned will probably all be 6 man as the originals were (Shadow Lord etc.) One event in the ENTIRE game that requires more than 6 people. This is an MMO?

Edit: Updated this post since its before Delve 2.0. Delve 2 heavily penalizes alliances and even bringing more than a handful of people. If you wanna include friends you can't unless its the strict job setup to get the win or you are looking at 68k+ HP per person. Why are alliances penalized for this when the rewards the same as the easy 6 man (or less considering you can trio it.)?

[Selindrile]

Why not make some new BCNMs 18 man content? Kirin/Behemoth/Fafnir/Adamantoise etc?

[Kimjongil]

If they made 18 man content I would hope it be like Divine Might 2.0. BUt not where you take in 18 people and have 16 rng melee one at a time while a super tank holds all others. The fight was boring. Two suggestions I do have.

1. The five WOTG formors with blue and white weapons, put them in a battlefield together.

2. The WOTG blu formors, Put all them in one battlefield together.

But make it so it is not just one super tank and melee pick one off at a time.

Or you could always do it legion style.

Wave one Divine might, wave two formor five, wave three WOTG formors.

Oh the fun

[Elphy]

Then you had everyone quit for XIV and come crawling back because its boring

Draylo just cant help but slam xiv every chance he gets lol

To quote a famous bard "The lady doth protest too much, methinks"

But I digress.

18-man content in this game is going away faster and faster and xi is basically being rendered the first solo mmo. But with numbers fluctuating and more often than not dwindling its no surprise they are making low man content a priority. The story is fantastic and some of the old endgame content was some of the best in the mmo-sphere (dynamis, salvage, einherjar, even nyzul was a hoot and so was mmm if you gave it a chance) but they have been broken down and/or reworked in such a way that its just not appealing anymore. Couple that with the poor ui, thousands of menus, silly lock out timers, etc and its not really a wonder that only the dedicated are sticking around and even they are starting to slip away. Plus who really wants to start building a weapon that's going to take months to well over a year sometime when you can just get a quick drop and move on, usually to a new game.

So the answer to why they did it is to just simply make it more accessible. It will be solo/trust friendly soon enough and then you wont even need 6 anymore. And like it or not xiv is the new money maker for se, not xi. So pleasing the few remaining by making accessible low-man content really is not a bad business plan. Just gotta roll with the punches if you have the insufferable urge to hold on.

[Draylo]

Draylo just cant help but slam xiv every chance he gets lol

To quote a famous bard "The lady doth protest too much, methinks"

But I digress.

18-man content in this game is going away faster and faster and xi is basically being rendered the first solo mmo. But with numbers fluctuating and more often than not dwindling its no surprise they are making low man content a priority. The story is fantastic and some of the old endgame content was some of the best in the mmo-sphere (dynamis, salvage, einherjar, even nyzul was a hoot and so was mmm if you gave it a chance) but they have been broken down and/or reworked in such a way that its just not appealing anymore. Couple that with the poor ui, thousands of menus, silly lock out timers, etc and its not really a wonder that only the dedicated are sticking around and even they are starting to slip away. Plus who really wants to start building a weapon that's going to take months to well over a year sometime when you can just get a quick drop and move on, usually to a new game.

So the answer to why they did it is to just simply make it more accessible. It will be solo/trust friendly soon enough and then you wont even need 6 anymore. And like it or not xiv is the new money maker for se, not xi. So pleasing the few remaining by making accessible low-man content really is not a bad business plan. Just gotta roll with the punches if you have the insufferable urge to hold on.

This game was founded on hard alliance content... a solo MMO is terrible lol. I didn't say it was wrong they made it 6~18man possibility, its wrong that they give the same rewards. What idiot thought that up? Why would you make it easier to complete a battle with 6 players and give the SAME rewards as the hard 18man fight? What MMO in the history of ever has done this? It makes absolutely no sense, you either give exclusive drops or more drops to the 18 man crew. They did it with Divine Might and then they take a step back and screw Delve up. The only reason you don't hear people saying anything about it is because they don't give a crap about 18 man alliance. They all quit and came back to the game and want everything handed to them in this age. They don't have the players anymore to make a linkshell because they screwed up or quit and abandoned those that they played with. My question to SE is, what incentive is there from this point onward to have a functioning linkshell? Are we going to strip down our numbers again just like with Abyssea and then have another content come out that requires us to repair our linkshells? Who isn't tired of doing that when they have been running an LS?

[Selindrile]

Using that Shakespearean line here however is ridiculous, for Draylo would have no reason to hide his liking of FFXIV, if he had any like for the game.

And to say "XI is becoming the first solo MMO" is equally rediculous, many, many, more MMOs are far closer to such a thing, hell even XIV is closer to that than XI, though neither are remotely close to such a thing.

[FaeQueenCory]

Using that Shakespearean line here however is ridiculous, for Draylo would have no reason to hide his liking of FFXIV, if he had any like for the game.

And to say "XI is becoming the first solo MMO" is equally rediculous, many, many, more MMOs are far closer to such a thing, hell even XIV is closer to that than XI, though neither are remotely close to such a thing.

I do believe she was referencing how trust has killed grouping up for basically everything <99...
Which, in my opinion, is a shame... Because I've met most of my friends list via PUG xp pts... Cause that's when people are sociable.
Now... Everyone would rather compete and be dbags for whatever page mobs rather than loose those Trust supports....
Which could EASILY be rectified by making Trusts be able to be party fillers like Fellows.

[Selindrile]

I do believe she was referencing how trust has killed grouping up for basically everything <99...
Which, in my opinion, is a shame... Because I've met most of my friends list via PUG xp pts... Cause that's when people are sociable.
Now... Everyone would rather compete and be dbags for whatever page mobs rather than loose those Trust supports....
Which could EASILY be rectified by making Trusts be able to be party fillers like Fellows.

Oh I agree, and I wish group exp rewards would change significantly to encourage grouping more however, if you think that makes FFXI more a "solo-oriented MMO" than a laundry list of others, including 14, you're delusional.

[FaeQueenCory]

Oh I agree, and I wish group exp rewards would change significantly to encourage grouping more however, if you think that makes FFXI more a "solo-oriented MMO" than a laundry list of others, including 14, you're delusional.

?_?
I don't understand your last statement...
How does favoring single player gameplay (at least from 1-99) not make something "solo-oriented"?
Cause.... That's kinda the definition... Of those words...

And Camiie, you basically described the functions of the WKRs.

[Selindrile]

?_?
I don't understand your last statement...
How does favoring single player gameplay (at least from 1-99) not make something "solo-oriented"?
Cause.... That's kinda the definition... Of those words...

And Camiie, you basically described the functions of the WKRs.

I also used the word "more", let me put it this way, on FFXI, when I'm doing any sort of content, I'm in a group of some type over 50% of the time.

In WoW it was probably about 30% of the time, XIV probably more like 25%, I will say there are some MMOs that are more group oriented ones though, I was probably in a group in Neverwinter over 70% of the time.

At any rate, I stand by the statement that FFXI isn't a solo-oriented MMO, the most efficient way of meriting at 99 is yes, solo with trust (And the ONLY reason that this is is because I only can store 30 merits, if I could store 500, abyssea would be the better meriting spot in an alliance, but you use so much time building up chain and lights in an alliance, it makes it less efficient when meriting for only 300k xp total, if I needed more exp, Aby parties would blow trust soloing away). But at lower levels, grouping and doing GoV pages or levelling in abyssea is still more efficient, and for gear options, group activities are almost always more efficient than solo ones.

Trust definitely made me lean towards soloing more for merits, but that's the only activity it changed, and I hope when they allow the use of Trust in groups and that they will change exp so that's no longer the case, but even with trust how it is, it's not nearly enough of a change for me to consider FFXI a "solo-oriented MMO" by any means.