Alliance based content

[Draylo]

Indeed, both major problems. SE seemed to get the former correct with revamped AF/Relic. Collecting Chapters in these different ways was a really great idea. I'm totally OK with the idea of taking much longer then people with connections. So long as I can actually make progress and I'm not just told, "Oh, you don't know X person or Y people? Well, you can't do it". Because the issue here isn't that I don't want to put in effort (I slowly grinded gil for 2 months everyday to get enough to buy my HMP last year), it's that I want to actually play the game: Without being told to wait 2+ hours before I can start making progress or that I'm just not allowed to have X gear because I don't really know certain people in game.

Basically, this:

I have no idea what you mean by "you don't know x or y person"? Are you trying to say that if you don't know specific people you are locked out of content? That is hardly true, you can do anything in this game lol. You just need to put forth the effort in getting the people together, which is something people like you don't do. Then you blame it on game design because you can't participate when that is your own doing. Of course you don't want to put in effort, you are the type of player holding this game back. This isn't WoW and obviously SE didn't intend it to be that, they did that with XIV.

[saevel]

I don't necessarily disagree with the basic point of your post, but I want to point out a typical hard core player very likely pays for more accounts and mules and is much less likely to deactivate any account(s) on a whim. Using myself as an example, between my GF and myself we have 4 accounts with dozens of mules. I personally haven't ever deactivated for ten years.

While I agree that SE should always keep casual players in mind, losing the hardcore players (and hardcore is a subjective term) would have more of a significant impact than you imply. With that said, I'm happy with the direction and current state of the game. My only current frustrations are the end of double XP, the apparently huge time sink of job points, and Ark Angel congestion.

You really gotta understand game demographics. "Hard core" players account for less then 5%, typically ~2% of a MMO's subscription base. So even if every one of them had two accounts, the casual players still dwarf them in financial contributions. It's a separator of time not effort (too many people confuse the two).

[saevel]

MMO's do work that way, what are you smoking? If you look at any MMO, the people who play two hours a week don't have the best gear in the game. I'm not sure how you can think otherwise, its clear as day. If you play with such little playtime, you shouldn't need to have the best gear in the game. This has been true for almost any MMO I've ever played, even FFXIV where you need ilevel gear to even enter some of the instances to do the fights. You can work towards the gear in FFXI just like the others though, even with minimal play time but it takes a lot longer. There are shouts for Delve all the time, and plenty of people who sell the wins to others where you can buy one and use the items mobs drop in the field to obtain plasm. None of the content in this game is out of reach of players, NONE, it is simply an issue of laziness or unwillingness to participate. How is it my problem that you have two hours a week to play? Why should I be penalized with dumbed down easy content just so you can obtain it? One guy even posted he doesn't have a win because he is a DD meathead who refuses to play support to help a party. Catering to people like that is ridiculous. I also think you are quite wrong about the hardcore players. If you haven't noticed, this game has a very niche userbase and the sub numbers aren't exactly super high. If all the hardcore players quit, I doubt you would have a game left.

Unfortunately your quite wrong here. Successful MMO's are successful because they make content accessible. Notice I said content and not rewards, this is because rewards are a result of content participation. Two players participating in the same content should expect the same reward, the difference between hard core and casual then becomes one of time. The hard core player has more time to devote to the game and thus can acquire rewards faster then the casual player who acquires the same rewards only at a much slower pace. This is a pattern seen in many successful MMO's. You release content A, the hard core players tackle and engage the content soon after release and develop an effective strategy, sooner rather then later they complete the content and acquire the rewards. The casual group takes longer to gear up and tackle the content, they generally trail the hard core crowd and copy strategies used, they eventually complete the content and acquire the same rewards. The design cycle of the developer is such that by the time the casual groups start to complete the content, new content is soon released, the hard core crowd isn't even a factor.

Your also wrong about the user base of FFXI. Folks, like yourself, with ample playtime and access to high end resources constitute a very small minority of the player base. Because you only hang out with and socialize with other people of your standing you begin to perceive that the entire game revolves around you. You couldn't be further from the truth, most players don't read the forums, don't research much information and generally engage as a form of escapism and entertainment. This very apparent to me as my time schedule and work / social obligations forces me to engage with and participate in content with the casual crowd. So yes if you, and all your friends, quit tomorrow, nothing would change, at most SE would revise content to lower it's difficulty which would actually be a good thing. If the casual players quit, you'd be finding a new game within a month or two. This is the reality of financing a MMO.

[saevel]

I have no idea what you mean by "you don't know x or y person"? Are you trying to say that if you don't know specific people you are locked out of content? That is hardly true, you can do anything in this game lol. You just need to put forth the effort in getting the people together, which is something people like you don't do. Then you blame it on game design because you can't participate when that is your own doing. Of course you don't want to put in effort, you are the type of player holding this game back. This isn't WoW and obviously SE didn't intend it to be that, they did that with XIV.

Yeah you've been living in your own little bubble too long.

What he's talking about is having access to 3~4 song BRDs, high level experienced DD's and other highly skilled support crew. The design of FFXI is such that you can't do anything without tons of support and good support players tend to be very choosey of their play groups. Used to be called "princess Bard syndrome" but has expanded to include stun SCH's and competent WHM's. DD's are fairly common but DD's who visit the forums and learn how to build gear sets are pretty rare. So no mater how good you are, you still need to find other people who are capable of completing the content, and the higher SE sets that bar the fewer and fewer people are able to participate. And MMO's are 100% about participation.

[Mefuki]

Post #31

Apologies for being unclear. I'm taking about logging in and saying to yourself, for example, "I feel like doing delve." You go into your LS and you ask,

"Where's *insert name of your LS's 4 song BRDs, Stun SCHs and DD that already have the gear from the content you want to do*.

"Oh, they're not online or they don't want to do that? Guess I'm not doing that today."

...

Shortly after, Steve the 4 song BRD logs in and says, "Anyone doing anything? You want to do Delve? Me too. Now let's both wait for everyone else to get on."

"Yeah, I really want to do Delve today so let's wait."

Now, I never said that SE should get rid of alliances. I simply said that it would be great if there was a sliding scale, from solo all the way up to 18-man, where monster statistics, reward quantity and drop rate/points earned(if it's a point/gear exchange system) scaled with how many you choose to bring. This way, you can log in and start playing any part of the game you want while giving incentives to partying up. Think kind of like a drop in-drop out system. So, under this system you log in and you say to yourself, "I feel like doing Delve". You go into your LS

"Does anyone want to come?"

"Oh, No one's here right now. Guess I'll go on my own."

...

Shortly after Steve the 4 song BRD logs in and says, "Anyone doing anything? You want to do Delve? Me too. Let's go together, It'll be a slightly tougher but we'll get more as a team."

"Yeah, I was just about to leave to go do it but let's go together."

Like I said, I'm not against putting forth effort. In abyssea's heyday, when I couldn't get body seals, I took a couple of days and soloed them via quest spam. Did it take longer then it could have if I had more people? Yes, but I didn't mind that much. At least I was making progress.

I spent around 2 months everyday farming the gil I needed for HMP. Did it take longer then it could have if I had more people? Yes, but I didn't mind that much. At least I was making progress.

I could go on but to summirize: I'm not opposed to putting forth effort. That's why I'd rather get working and progress on my goals instead of just waiting around for everyone to show up.

[Draylo]

You don't need four song bard to do current content. They have bards with three songs with the new one hour that is more than efficient. You can keep three songs up full time with proper application. There isn't anything hard about stunning on SCH, so I'm not sure why that is hard to get. You don't need gear from Delve to do Delve, there are reforged relic and AF that is more than adequate. You have to look for more people instead of saying "Oh guess I'm not doing that today." I used to shout all the time back in the day before I started to lead my own LS and do things I want after hard effort. I agree with you, 6~18 man Delve is fine for people who are incapable of putting forth effort, I stated that in my OP even though it sucks since they design the content with that in mind. What I am not fine with is having the rewards be the EXACT SAME. It should slide just like you said.

[Draylo]

Yeah you've been living in your own little bubble too long.

What he's talking about is having access to 3~4 song BRDs, high level experienced DD's and other highly skilled support crew. The design of FFXI is such that you can't do anything without tons of support and good support players tend to be very choosey of their play groups. Used to be called "princess Bard syndrome" but has expanded to include stun SCH's and competent WHM's. DD's are fairly common but DD's who visit the forums and learn how to build gear sets are pretty rare. So no mater how good you are, you still need to find other people who are capable of completing the content, and the higher SE sets that bar the fewer and fewer people are able to participate. And MMO's are 100% about participation.

You don't need 3~4 song BRDs, read my previous post as to why. High level experienced DD's? Why shouldn't they be required for the HARDEST content in the game? You should need skilled crew to do things that are considered highest tier, not random scrubs who can't heal or do anything because they suck. You can simply join a group that is capable of winning or you can move servers until you find one. Even if SE has ONLY 6 man content, you still NEED to have competent people to win it. That is why you don't see anyone beating Kamnalaut for the new battle, or even beating the 6 man delve. This doesn't change anything except require you to bring less idiots to the battle. I didn't say I wanted to restrict content to 18 people only (which I would rather, but I understand the general population sucks as evidenced by this thread) I wanted sliding rewards. Why should they get to bring 6 gimps to attempt content that gives the same rewards as 18 people? If I enjoy content with 18 people that is beneficial to them all, why do I get shafted simply because casual #1 can only play two hours a week? That is making me unable to participate in content I desire, which is allianced based.

[Draylo]

Unfortunately your quite wrong here. Successful MMO's are successful because they make content accessible. Notice I said content and not rewards, this is because rewards are a result of content participation. Two players participating in the same content should expect the same reward, the difference between hard core and casual then becomes one of time. The hard core player has more time to devote to the game and thus can acquire rewards faster then the casual player who acquires the same rewards only at a much slower pace. This is a pattern seen in many successful MMO's. You release content A, the hard core players tackle and engage the content soon after release and develop an effective strategy, sooner rather then later they complete the content and acquire the rewards. The casual group takes longer to gear up and tackle the content, they generally trail the hard core crowd and copy strategies used, they eventually complete the content and acquire the same rewards. The design cycle of the developer is such that by the time the casual groups start to complete the content, new content is soon released, the hard core crowd isn't even a factor.

Your also wrong about the user base of FFXI. Folks, like yourself, with ample playtime and access to high end resources constitute a very small minority of the player base. Because you only hang out with and socialize with other people of your standing you begin to perceive that the entire game revolves around you. You couldn't be further from the truth, most players don't read the forums, don't research much information and generally engage as a form of escapism and entertainment. This very apparent to me as my time schedule and work / social obligations forces me to engage with and participate in content with the casual crowd. So yes if you, and all your friends, quit tomorrow, nothing would change, at most SE would revise content to lower it's difficulty which would actually be a good thing. If the casual players quit, you'd be finding a new game within a month or two. This is the reality of financing a MMO.

Yet FFXI was a successful MMO for a very long time with huge lockouts for gimps. I wouldn't pass your opinion off as fact. The current content in this game is exactly like you say anyways, you can beat it with casual people. I have seen an LS start that is filled with them and they managed to beat all three Delve bosses after a long time. What is barring about any of the content right now or before? Nothing, thats what. Any casual has the same opportunities that a hardcore player does, its not like HNM days.

[saevel]

WTF are you smoking? FFXI was never very successful as an MMO. Too many barriers for casual folks so they tend not to play and because there are fewer casuals pumping money into the system there is a resulting smaller development effort (not to mention FFXIV siphoning talent away) which entices less hardcore players.

Otherwise it just looks like your trying to brag or something?

[Draylo]

The numbers say otherwise, and the fact that the game is still running. You can try to pass your opinions off as facts but it doesn't change anything. You ignored quite a few of my points too, I'm not asking for casual players to be "unable" to do content, I'm asking for fairness. You can't have 6 people breeze through these NMs and get the same rewards as 18, it makes 0 sense. Their either has to be a bonus for bringing 18, such as exclusive drops or increased plasm/items or it isn't fair. If this is the case, I would like a statement saying future content will be void of any alliance based fights (12~18+.) This would solve the dilemma because we would know from here on that we won't have a situation like when Delve was released and everyone had to recruit.