Alliance based content

[saevel]

MMO's do work that way, what are you smoking? If you look at any MMO, the people who play two hours a week don't have the best gear in the game. I'm not sure how you can think otherwise, its clear as day. If you play with such little playtime, you shouldn't need to have the best gear in the game. This has been true for almost any MMO I've ever played, even FFXIV where you need ilevel gear to even enter some of the instances to do the fights. You can work towards the gear in FFXI just like the others though, even with minimal play time but it takes a lot longer. There are shouts for Delve all the time, and plenty of people who sell the wins to others where you can buy one and use the items mobs drop in the field to obtain plasm. None of the content in this game is out of reach of players, NONE, it is simply an issue of laziness or unwillingness to participate. How is it my problem that you have two hours a week to play? Why should I be penalized with dumbed down easy content just so you can obtain it? One guy even posted he doesn't have a win because he is a DD meathead who refuses to play support to help a party. Catering to people like that is ridiculous. I also think you are quite wrong about the hardcore players. If you haven't noticed, this game has a very niche userbase and the sub numbers aren't exactly super high. If all the hardcore players quit, I doubt you would have a game left.

Unfortunately your quite wrong here. Successful MMO's are successful because they make content accessible. Notice I said content and not rewards, this is because rewards are a result of content participation. Two players participating in the same content should expect the same reward, the difference between hard core and casual then becomes one of time. The hard core player has more time to devote to the game and thus can acquire rewards faster then the casual player who acquires the same rewards only at a much slower pace. This is a pattern seen in many successful MMO's. You release content A, the hard core players tackle and engage the content soon after release and develop an effective strategy, sooner rather then later they complete the content and acquire the rewards. The casual group takes longer to gear up and tackle the content, they generally trail the hard core crowd and copy strategies used, they eventually complete the content and acquire the same rewards. The design cycle of the developer is such that by the time the casual groups start to complete the content, new content is soon released, the hard core crowd isn't even a factor.

Your also wrong about the user base of FFXI. Folks, like yourself, with ample playtime and access to high end resources constitute a very small minority of the player base. Because you only hang out with and socialize with other people of your standing you begin to perceive that the entire game revolves around you. You couldn't be further from the truth, most players don't read the forums, don't research much information and generally engage as a form of escapism and entertainment. This very apparent to me as my time schedule and work / social obligations forces me to engage with and participate in content with the casual crowd. So yes if you, and all your friends, quit tomorrow, nothing would change, at most SE would revise content to lower it's difficulty which would actually be a good thing. If the casual players quit, you'd be finding a new game within a month or two. This is the reality of financing a MMO.

[Draylo]

Unfortunately your quite wrong here. Successful MMO's are successful because they make content accessible. Notice I said content and not rewards, this is because rewards are a result of content participation. Two players participating in the same content should expect the same reward, the difference between hard core and casual then becomes one of time. The hard core player has more time to devote to the game and thus can acquire rewards faster then the casual player who acquires the same rewards only at a much slower pace. This is a pattern seen in many successful MMO's. You release content A, the hard core players tackle and engage the content soon after release and develop an effective strategy, sooner rather then later they complete the content and acquire the rewards. The casual group takes longer to gear up and tackle the content, they generally trail the hard core crowd and copy strategies used, they eventually complete the content and acquire the same rewards. The design cycle of the developer is such that by the time the casual groups start to complete the content, new content is soon released, the hard core crowd isn't even a factor.

Your also wrong about the user base of FFXI. Folks, like yourself, with ample playtime and access to high end resources constitute a very small minority of the player base. Because you only hang out with and socialize with other people of your standing you begin to perceive that the entire game revolves around you. You couldn't be further from the truth, most players don't read the forums, don't research much information and generally engage as a form of escapism and entertainment. This very apparent to me as my time schedule and work / social obligations forces me to engage with and participate in content with the casual crowd. So yes if you, and all your friends, quit tomorrow, nothing would change, at most SE would revise content to lower it's difficulty which would actually be a good thing. If the casual players quit, you'd be finding a new game within a month or two. This is the reality of financing a MMO.

Yet FFXI was a successful MMO for a very long time with huge lockouts for gimps. I wouldn't pass your opinion off as fact. The current content in this game is exactly like you say anyways, you can beat it with casual people. I have seen an LS start that is filled with them and they managed to beat all three Delve bosses after a long time. What is barring about any of the content right now or before? Nothing, thats what. Any casual has the same opportunities that a hardcore player does, its not like HNM days.

[ZoMBie343]

Somebody has to play support jobs or the group won't succeed, 18man or 6man. If you don't have the time to sink into an MMO, you can't expect to be the best. You should be content with eminent gear and reforged AF, the low tier gear was created for players like you. The top end gear should be to the people who are most dedicated and are able to field the things necessary to win it.

This kind of thinking is toxic for any MMO. You should be concerned about building relationships with people instead of finding new and creative ways to exclude people. (Actually I don't think it's new or creative).

[Afania]

This kind of thinking is toxic for any MMO. You should be concerned about building relationships with people instead of finding new and creative ways to exclude people. (Actually I don't think it's new or creative).

Not sure what's so toxic about it. 6 man content is better at excluding people since the elite can play with mules/close friends and 18 man forces players to build relationships with people and find more friends.

[Draylo]

Why stop at 6 then? If these people can't muster the strength to create linkshells or parties within their play time, why don't we just drop all content down to 1~2 man so we can all duo it with our mules and trust npcs? How would you feel about that? Where exactly do we draw the line here lol. It should be obvious that a battle designed around 18 players is more difficult than a battle designed for 6 players. SE is allowed more freedom in monster strength when they know 18 players are going up against it instead of 6. The above poster refused to play a support job because he was a DD only meathead, why should they cater to people like that? He was probably one of those fail players that complained 24/7.

[AyinDygra]

Wow, wish my Dynamis Linkshell, Salvage static, Limbus static, and assault groups were still playing and posting, to back me up here... but I don't feel like defending myself against that... I'll just let my comment stand on wanting more Campaign, Besieged, Wildskeeper Reives, that allow anyone to join and be rewarded for their effort, without needing to join a massive linkshell and be forced to play jobs they don't like, when they want to do anything fun. (this game wouldn't be fun on a job I hate...)

That is all.

[Draylo]

Against what? When you refuse to come any type of support to any group you are a burden. People in groups should be flexible and rotate jobs to help everyone out. You think people like playing support jobs 24/7? They want to go DD sometimes too.

[AyinDygra]

Find people who like to play support jobs, so it's FUN for them when they play! They must exist...

... hey, even I like playing Dancer to be a healer/support... but nobody wants that. I'd play an item-based Chemist type healer, if they existed like in my Job proposal (ideal expansion thread)
... but I wouldn't force anyone to play a job they don't like. Bard is annoying to me... Corsair... can't stand random for drops, why rely on it for my job too? ... mages... more of a personal choice to never play a mage in any game ever... (I loved that Vagrant Story had a "never used magic" accomplishment!, beat FFXII without magic, beat FFI, FF5, with all monks (sometimes Dragoons, I like dragoons too, but not in FFXI, FFX, I put all my characters through the physical sphere paths, so Lulu's dolls were crazy strong!)

This game isn't a job... "take one for the team"... "be miserable"... not things I'd say. Anyway... enough of that. It's an MMO... find all those crazy people who like their jobs!

Defend myself from what? Burden, meathead, failplayer, complainer...

In my groups in FFXI, I've been an asset, not a burden. Did Dynamis twice a week for years (staying awake!) long after I got everything I wanted from it... Did tons of abyssea together, finished tons of empy+2 gear for the whole team. I joined a couple established static groups later in the content's lifespan, so I was playing catch-up on gear, so it may have felt like they were doing more for me than I had for them at some points... (never finished my Usukane... they finished all their gear early, and just gave up on the event when better gear was released, and didn't want to do more to get my last 2 pieces to finish 2 pieces) but I can't really force anyone to play content they don't want to, now can I? Not fun, ok. I'm probably going to go solo those pieces to finish them up soon, just for the completionist in me.

So... anyway...

[Mirage]

I think in the events where you can choose between 6 or 18 people (or anything in between), players should be able to get the same items no matter which version they choose, but that item drop rates should be higher in the 18 man version, simply because there's more people competing for the same items. An item with a 20% drop rate when fighting the alliance version shouldn't have more than around 5-6% drop rate in a single party version. Of course, if you choose to attempt on the version that is intended for 18 people with less than 18 people, you shouldn't be penalized for that, but instead get the same high drop rate split among fewer people.

[Mefuki]

Post #15

Agreed. Monster statistics, reward quantity and drop rate should simply be on a sliding scale with how many people you choose to bring to that content.