Enmity Revision

[Aeron]

So I gave the recent update a chance to settle in as far as the adjustments to enmity are concerned.

Imo CE generation should be left solely to JAs and MAs.

Now I understand that the recent update reduced the enmity generated by dmg but it seem that it was nowhere near the necessary adjustments.

when you consider that a mnk using formless can do average ws's of 5k in any content where they generate both CE/VE with a ws it makes no sense given the delay of the wpn/the amount of times they can spam the ws.

this design flaw and really it only stems for CE has not been address in the proper context. the elimination of dmg CE is really the fix the game need. Or another major reduction in enmity from dmg.

[FaeQueenCory]

I don't know about that.... Cause... If RUN is ever going to be equal of PLD.... It NEEDS that CE enmity from damage...
Cause damage is how RUN gains enmity. (ironically this tank wants to act like the crappy DDs of old: "oooo ahh... you janked the PLD's enmity with your damage! so speacial." .... to clarify: it needs that enmity from damage to maintain it's hold.)

All RUN has is it's JAs, damage and flash.... and /war can kinda gimp you, because while you might gain provoke... you loose any cures or fastcast you might have had... Unlike PLD who has native cure4.

Mind, currently, RUN is not to that level... but it's getting there, and it can't afford the loss of WS/AA damage enmity.

[Martel]

While I agree that DMG dealt should still generate CE....

RUN's problem is that it has the physical durability of a wet paper sack. Not that it can't generate enough enmity.

In terms of enmity generation, RUN is definitively superior to PLD. RUN has a ridiculous array of enmity tools. Tons of JA, all with notable CE values. And two very good native enmity spells, flash and foil. And foil, being self targeted, generates enmity for every mob on the hate list.

Action			CE	VE
Elemental Sforzo	1800	7200
Vallation		450	900
Valliance		450	900
Embolden		160	320
Swordplay		160	320
Pflug			450	900
Gambit			640	1280
Liement			450	900
One For All		160	320
Batutta			450	900
Rayke			640	1260
Runes			40	160

Foil			320	880
Flash			180	1280

A RUN/PLD using sentinel could Cap CE(10k) in 10 seconds. Mind you, That'd take perfect timing with JA use. So lets say 15~20 for a more realistic value.

Of course, doing this requires RUN's SP, and a rather non standard sub. But even without /PLD, you could still hit 5K~ CE in the same time frame. And that's before accounting for enmity gear.

Furthermore, they have massive native fast cast letting them spam their enmity spells far faster than a PLD.

Wanna see PLD's enmity tool list?

Action			CE	VE
Invincible		1	7200
Holy circle		1	20
Shield Bash		1	900
Sentinel		1	1800
Cover			1	300
Rampart			1	300
Fealty			1	300
Chivalry		1	300
Divine Emblem		1	300
Palisade		0	1800

Flash			180	1280
Enlight			20	180
Reprisal		0	640

Enmity generation-wise PLD's only advantages are greater access to enmity+ gear, and sentinel(which is sub-able anyway.)

Although PLD does has a great advantage in not Losing as much CE. Both via taking less damage, and having enmity+ on already good PDT gear. Which is good, 'cause PLD has a hell of a lot harder timer building CE in the first place. A PLD that wants to build good CE, has to sub /BLU or /DRK for additional CE actions.

Also, using /war for enmity purposes would be really silly. Provoke is really not that good an enmity tool. And cures, while useful for survival purposes, generate truly terrible enmity these days. And RUN isn't going to lose and fast cast from changing subs. They can easily cap fast cast. +60% fast cast during vallation or valiance(which can be full timed via alternating) with 5/5 inspiration merits and Relic aug.

What RUN needs to be equal to PLD, is the ability to survive heavy physical damage. They've got the enmity thing covered even if they didn't melee at all.

[Aeron]

I would like to see different jobs have different modifiers for enmity for dmg.

Make it to where certain ws produce better CE and VE then others.

something that I noticed was that with the decrease in enmity from dmg this actually negatively affected pld. Maybe the solution is that enmity generation be more balanced.

Where reducing the amount of enmity from dmg was necessary for mnk, applying that same equation to pld basically just adjusted the curve lol.

I feel like what they really need to do is really decide what they want to do to mnk as far as is it a heavy DD or a tank because right now its both lol.

[Martel]

Except PLD's DPS output sucks. So we weren't keeping hate via dealing damage anyway.

But since dmg dealt pulls less hate now, but spells and JA are still the same PLD has benefited far more than it has been harmed.

[Selindrile]

Yeah, don't get me wrong, the enmity adjustment positively effected Pld, just not all that much, DD still reach the enmity cap rather quickly and hate bounces from there. (except for Rngs)

Would rather see caps adjusted in some way, but there are some other things that could be done.

Allow us to remove aggro with a job ability (or resting) or something.... or let CE decay in time along with VE.

Rebalance Atonement so that it's maximum damage from capped enmity is based on the mob's level?

750 at 75, +15 damage/Lv after that, so lv119 = 1410 damage, is a start? Could really go higher.

This wouldn't help that much but would help Pld build CE faster.

[Martel]

I'd love to see Atonement damage enhanced. Considering the potential of today's DDs, 750 is an incredibly weak WS, even on high end content.

But if SE doesn't want to increase PLD DPS in anyway, and they usually don't, then as an alternative Atonement could be made static enmity rather than DMG dealt enmity. This would let you get full enmity from it even after hate resets, or right at the start of a fight. But note, I'd only like this if the static enmity value is going to be significantly higher than the base enmity from a 1072 Atonement(Burtgang, phorcys, ogier.)

[Selindrile]

I never knew Phorcys body affected Atonement... I should put that in my set, neat.

[Martel]

Any form of WS damage+ will do it. The only issue is there's very little of that stat around. There are 3 non weapon PLD wearable pieces. Phorcys body is 7%. Ogier legs are 3%, and a Augmented Champion's Galea is 2%. Magian weps can have 10%. But no one's gonna use those anymore.

99 Burtgang is +30%, but that's technically "Atonement damage+" not WS damage+.

Neat fact. While elemental gorgets/belts won't increase max atonement damage, they do increase the DMG per enmity. So you can cap dmg with less total enmity. TP bonus does the same. I don't usually bother using them though, since getting enough enmity to cap atonement is not difficult, and once capped I'd rather use more enmity+. But still, it's an interesting mechanic to know about.

[Selindrile]

Yeah for some reason I thought WSD only affected physical WSes.