Please put more focus on end game class balance

[AppropriateName5786]

You're right. I can't possibly comprehend the genius of treating entire jobs as though they are no more than highly situational pieces of gear. I can't comprehend the genius of taking a huge selling point of the game, the classic FF jobs that define the franchise, and reducing those jobs to useless window dressing. I can't comprehend the genius of disappointing longtime fans of the franchise who wanted to create their own character in the image of one of their favorites. I absolutely don't get it at all, so please explain to me the advantages of this brilliant strategy.

Your patience is commendable. I would have given up long ago with these people.

[Sfchakan]

RUN is a novelty job and will never be considered a tank in it's current state. It is quite obviously not an acceptable tank for anything serious just from looking at it on paper. You made the choice to level and gear it for whatever reason, hoping to use it as a tank to... everything? Anything? There are no encounters currently where it excels at anything more than being a support job in the game. This is not the fault of other jobs being "overpowered," but the using the job simply being kind of silly. It's my perspective that the job needs a complete overhaul in order to be an effective tank or even support tank.

If you want to tank all content, then level various jobs that can tank (PLD, WAR, NIN, MNK) and gear them instead of whining. Aegis take a couple of months work, Ochain can be done by a PUP in short time if you're focused, I'm sure.

But, hey, we can all cry for nerfs, I guess! Surely, that's the best way to balance the game instead of simply making yourself available to fill what the task at hands needs!

I think RUN is overpowered because it has UNPARALLELED access to Runes that other jobs do not. Please make PLD, WAR, NIN and MNK just as good at using Runes and Big, Shiny swords as RUN, Square!

[FaeQueenCory]

I don't think Ochain and Aegis are overpowered.... they are "epic" weapons that do exactly what they were designed to do: mitigate physical and magical damage respectively.
This is perfectly in line with PLD, because PLD is the "classic" tank. A "classic" tank is one who mitigates damage, by taking 0 damage.
It's one of the 3 tank archetypes: classic, meat and blink. (classic = never damaged, meat = constant damage but constant healing, and blink = ... well... blinking the damage away.)

PLD is could also be considered a meat tank... but an ideally geared pld will be taking 0 dmg.
(even a non ideally geared one can do that too)

The problem specifically with RUN is twofold: (mind you this is with respect to RUN being an inverse PLD: major magic classic tanking, good-to-major phys tanking)
1) Greatsword.

Without shields... RUN's way to mitigate damage is purely by -DT gear and parry... for physical damage only anyways.... I think anyone who's actually played RUN can agree that it can tank magic damage ungodly well. (Though only for 1 element at a time... so... meh.)
-PDT caps at -50%, and Parry rate caps at 20%... meaning 80% of attacks on average will be unparried...
And RUN has no way to bypass this cap, as PLD does: Ochain's shield blocking and Burtang
However, this is very easy to be rectified.
And the key is RUN's fake-mythic...
Which not only have to be the equivalent to Burtang in terms of benefit... but also be the equivalent to Aegis and Ochain... at the same time.
Here is the current Burtang:

And here's the current shields:

Let's ignore the iLv stats and just focus on the augments.
RUN's fake mythic will need to have some amount of -PDT that is comparable to the -18% Burtang gives PLDs. I would vote for at least an even -20%... namely because RUN's -DT stats seem to... be 2/3rds the values PLDs get... Yet SE wants these two jobs to be interchangeable and equal? .... smh

• And while having it have a hard -DT that bypasses the cap would be better than just -PDT... It would never happen, but more importantly, RUN doesn't need the -MDT. It REALLY doesn't... NMs that would 1shot pretty much every job... even PLDs with Aegis... RUN laughs at... From my own experience... their super-ultra-mega-death moves... don't even break my SS... (again, single element tanking god = RUN)

• Enmity is nice and all... but Kaquljaan has taught me that MAB is a stat that MAJORLY boosts RUN's tanking ability... I would argue more so than +Enmity would because RUN doesn't maintain hate via cures and holding gained hate like a PLD does... it maintains hate from the constant additional hate massive damages from GSs give. So instead of a +enmity term, I would rather see a +MAB term... it doesn't even have to be very big either. Tunglmyrkvi agrees that it wouldn't even have to be greater than a piddly +10 thanks to the base damage a 119 GS would have.

• As stated in the previous bullet, RUN doesn't hold hate, it constantly generates more hate, so a buff like "reduce enmity loss from taking damage" is... just kinda meh on RUN... sure, it's helpful... kinda... but the sheer damage GSs afford RUN make it kinda... unnecessary. +enmity is better for RUN tanking than "reduces enmity loss from taking damage".

• And now we come to the shield's part in this GS. It's actually not the stats from Aegis and Ochain that need to be equivalently realized in RUN's fake mythic... it's their hidden effect: increases block rate, not applied to the 65% block rate cap. While Aegis' hidden buff is less substantial than Ochain's is (iirc) it's still there. And the RUN mythic would need a similar damage mitigating hidden effect on it... however... this effect would have to be MASSIVE compared to the rate increase from even Ochain... and this is because the Parry cap is 20%. Shields can block 65% of your attacks, but you can only parry 20% of your attacks. Either they need to give RUN a JT that lets it increase the parry rate to 65%, just wholesale increase the parry cap (never happen), or have RUN's fake mythic's hidden parry buff (as that is RUN's shield skill) be the equivalent to Ochain's +35% buff: in other words, +80% parry rate, bypasses cap. (IMO, the best route would be JT boost to 65% and then +35% like Ochain on the fake mythic)

• I know I said the stats on the shields aren't relevant/needed... but I kinda lied... sorta. "convert damage to MP"... SO GOOD for PLD... and SO GOOD for RUN too. It would not be bad if the fake mythic came with that ability in lieu of "reduces enmity loss from taking damage"... in fact, RUN kinda loves that effect far more than PLD ever will... which brings us to:

2) Refresh

Now I know what most people are thinking "RUN already has refresh?" and it does indeed....
But anyone who's ever used any body piece that isn't RUN's RF1... knows how much RUN hemorrhages MP.
If it weren't for things like Ethereal Earring and Flume Belt... RUN wouldn't be able to function at all.... and even then, those are more a bandaid rather than a real serviceable thing.

RUN needs its auto-refresh.
Just as PLD does.... and speaking of PLD, let's look at the two reasons why PLDs have little to no MP problems while RUN has 0 MP all the time:

1. Auto-Refresh JT: The current state of RUN at 99 is what PLD is before lv35. The MOMENT a PLD hits 35, all their MP issues fly out the window until the reach 75... and even then, it just becomes something that has to be thought about slightly... And once at 75, it ceases to be a problem because:
2. Chivalry: This merit ability alone could make PLD not need refresh gear. Shield Mastery + Ochain + Chivalry = infinite MP. And then you have 1MP/tic happening all the while on top of all that. And you don't even need Ochain for it either, it just makes PLD's MP even LESS of an issue.

It's really shocking how much RUN needs that 2MP/tic from the RF1 body piece... and I feel that it could even get by with 1MP/tic too... the 2MP is just more of a good thing.

And the reason for why RUN eats away it's MP like crazy is because of how it mitigates damage: through the constant reapplication of various enhancing magics.
That 22mp adds up VERY quickly.

And while I see what they did with Vivacious Pulse... It's very clear, at least to me, that it's intended to be the equivalent to PLD's Chivalry...
But... it requires dark runes to restore MP....
And as we all know... RUN tanks a single element of magic... meaning: if you're not fighting a light enemy where dark runes will reduce its light damage to nothing... you no longer have the ability to restore your MP. At least not without loosing your magical damage protection... as well as the demand to change all your runes... not once, but twice...
just to restore a little MP....
As a famous black woman once said:

Ain't nobody got time for that!

So basically.... Vivacious Pulse is much like any RUN JSE that has -PDT... "it's like PLD's ability/gear... just at 2/3 the usefulness/worth/value/goodness."

If they adjust what I have outlined here... Then RUN really can be interchangeable (mostly) with PLD, as is their constant refrain telling us that that's their wish.

Make the fake mythic have abilities in line with what I said here... (what I would do is: -20%PDT, overcap; +10~15MAB; "enhances rune enhancement effect"; hidden:+35~80% overcap parry rate... the rune enchantment effect lets you hold 1 more rune... cause mythics do that sort of thing... and it might ease up on the need to change all three runes to dark to get some mp back.)
And make the empyrean body have both 1-2MP/tic refresh AND at least -8%PDT... Why does PLD's relic body clock out 9% of all damage... but RUN's fake relic body only nulls 6%? These are not equal things... if anything RUN's gear should have MORE -PDT than PLD's on account of PLD's gear all has much higher DEF... plus shields.

EDIT: Oops. Forgot to point out, "bluh bluh bluh I don't want to have to make a mythic to be good bluh bluh bluh"... well if the fake relic set is any indication... RUN's fake mythic is gonna be so easily obtained... it could hardly be called "mythic".

[Ritsuka]

I don't think Ochain and Aegis are overpowered.... they are "epic" weapons that do exactly what they were designed to do: mitigate physical and magical damage respectively.
This is perfectly in line with PLD, because PLD is the "classic" tank. A "classic" tank is one who mitigates damage, by taking 0 damage.
It's one of the 3 tank archetypes: classic, meat and blink. (classic = never damaged, meat = constant damage but constant healing, and blink = ... well... blinking the damage away.)

PLD is could also be considered a meat tank... but an ideally geared pld will be taking 0 dmg.
(even a non ideally geared one can do that too)

The problem specifically with RUN is twofold: (mind you this is with respect to RUN being an inverse PLD: major magic classic tanking, good-to-major phys tanking)
1) Greatsword.

Without shields... RUN's way to mitigate damage is purely by -DT gear and parry... for physical damage only anyways.... I think anyone who's actually played RUN can agree that it can tank magic damage ungodly well. (Though only for 1 element at a time... so... meh.)
-PDT caps at -50%, and Parry rate caps at 20%... meaning 80% of attacks on average will be unparried...
And RUN has no way to bypass this cap, as PLD does: Ochain's shield blocking and Burtang
However, this is very easy to be rectified.
And the key is RUN's fake-mythic...
Which not only have to be the equivalent to Burtang in terms of benefit... but also be the equivalent to Aegis and Ochain... at the same time.
Here is the current Burtang:

And here's the current shields:

Let's ignore the iLv stats and just focus on the augments.
RUN's fake mythic will need to have some amount of -PDT that is comparable to the -18% Burtang gives PLDs. I would vote for at least an even -20%... namely because RUN's -DT stats seem to... be 2/3rds the values PLDs get... Yet SE wants these two jobs to be interchangeable and equal? .... smh

• And while having it have a hard -DT that bypasses the cap would be better than just -PDT... It would never happen, but more importantly, RUN doesn't need the -MDT. It REALLY doesn't... NMs that would 1shot pretty much every job... even PLDs with Aegis... RUN laughs at... From my own experience... their super-ultra-mega-death moves... don't even break my SS... (again, single element tanking god = RUN)

• Enmity is nice and all... but Kaquljaan has taught me that MAB is a stat that MAJORLY boosts RUN's tanking ability... I would argue more so than +Enmity would because RUN doesn't maintain hate via cures and holding gained hate like a PLD does... it maintains hate from the constant additional hate massive damages from GSs give. So instead of a +enmity term, I would rather see a +MAB term... it doesn't even have to be very big either. Tunglmyrkvi agrees that it wouldn't even have to be greater than a piddly +10 thanks to the base damage a 119 GS would have.

• As stated in the previous bullet, RUN doesn't hold hate, it constantly generates more hate, so a buff like "reduce enmity loss from taking damage" is... just kinda meh on RUN... sure, it's helpful... kinda... but the sheer damage GSs afford RUN make it kinda... unnecessary. +enmity is better for RUN tanking than "reduces enmity loss from taking damage".

• And now we come to the shield's part in this GS. It's actually not the stats from Aegis and Ochain that need to be equivalently realized in RUN's fake mythic... it's their hidden effect: increases block rate, not applied to the 65% block rate cap. While Aegis' hidden buff is less substantial than Ochain's is (iirc) it's still there. And the RUN mythic would need a similar damage mitigating hidden effect on it... however... this effect would have to be MASSIVE compared to the rate increase from even Ochain... and this is because the Parry cap is 20%. Shields can block 65% of your attacks, but you can only parry 20% of your attacks. Either they need to give RUN a JT that lets it increase the parry rate to 65%, just wholesale increase the parry cap (never happen), or have RUN's fake mythic's hidden parry buff (as that is RUN's shield skill) be the equivalent to Ochain's +35% buff: in other words, +80% parry rate, bypasses cap. (IMO, the best route would be JT boost to 65% and then +35% like Ochain on the fake mythic)

• I know I said the stats on the shields aren't relevant/needed... but I kinda lied... sorta. "convert damage to MP"... SO GOOD for PLD... and SO GOOD for RUN too. It would not be bad if the fake mythic came with that ability in lieu of "reduces enmity loss from taking damage"... in fact, RUN kinda loves that effect far more than PLD ever will... which brings us to:

2) Refresh

Now I know what most people are thinking "RUN already has refresh?" and it does indeed....
But anyone who's ever used any body piece that isn't RUN's RF1... knows how much RUN hemorrhages MP.
If it weren't for things like Ethereal Earring and Flume Belt... RUN wouldn't be able to function at all.... and even then, those are more a bandaid rather than a real serviceable thing.

RUN needs its auto-refresh.
Just as PLD does.... and speaking of PLD, let's look at the two reasons why PLDs have little to no MP problems while RUN has 0 MP all the time:

1. Auto-Refresh JT: The current state of RUN at 99 is what PLD is before lv35. The MOMENT a PLD hits 35, all their MP issues fly out the window until the reach 75... and even then, it just becomes something that has to be thought about slightly... And once at 75, it ceases to be a problem because:
2. Chivalry: This merit ability alone could make PLD not need refresh gear. Shield Mastery + Ochain + Chivalry = infinite MP. And then you have 1MP/tic happening all the while on top of all that. And you don't even need Ochain for it either, it just makes PLD's MP even LESS of an issue.

It's really shocking how much RUN needs that 2MP/tic from the RF1 body piece... and I feel that it could even get by with 1MP/tic too... the 2MP is just more of a good thing.

And the reason for why RUN eats away it's MP like crazy is because of how it mitigates damage: through the constant reapplication of various enhancing magics.
That 22mp adds up VERY quickly.

And while I see what they did with Vivacious Pulse... It's very clear, at least to me, that it's intended to be the equivalent to PLD's Chivalry...
But... it requires dark runes to restore MP....
And as we all know... RUN tanks a single element of magic... meaning: if you're not fighting a light enemy where dark runes will reduce its light damage to nothing... you no longer have the ability to restore your MP. At least not without loosing your magical damage protection... as well as the demand to change all your runes... not once, but twice...
just to restore a little MP....
As a famous black woman once said:
So basically.... Vivacious Pulse is much like any RUN JSE that has -PDT... "it's like PLD's ability/gear... just at 2/3 the usefulness/worth/value/goodness."

If they adjust what I have outlined here... Then RUN really can be interchangeable (mostly) with PLD, as is their constant refrain telling us that that's their wish.

Make the fake mythic have abilities in line with what I said here... (what I would do is: -20%PDT, overcap; +10~15MAB; "enhances rune enhancement effect"; hidden:+35~80% overcap parry rate... the rune enchantment effect lets you hold 1 more rune... cause mythics do that sort of thing... and it might ease up on the need to change all three runes to dark to get some mp back.)
And make the empyrean body have both 1-2MP/tic refresh AND at least -8%PDT... Why does PLD's relic body clock out 9% of all damage... but RUN's fake relic body only nulls 6%? These are not equal things... if anything RUN's gear should have MORE -PDT than PLD's on account of PLD's gear all has much higher DEF... plus shields.

EDIT: Oops. Forgot to point out, "bluh bluh bluh I don't want to have to make a mythic to be good bluh bluh bluh"... well if the fake relic set is any indication... RUN's fake mythic is gonna be so easily obtained... it could hardly be called "mythic".

Rune hasn't even been out a year yet its still pretty new and nobody knows what it can truely do yet. Give it more time it be one year tho sometime this month tho ^^

[Selindrile]

Feary/Sfchakan, I'm astonished by where you come down on this topic, I don't think I've ever heard someone come down on the side of "Whelp you picked a crappy job to enjoy, now you don't get to enjoy things as much as other people."

Asking for jobs to be buffed so that they'll be desired more does nothing to "break the philosophy of FFXI" in and of itself, but even if they did so in their quest for a more balanced, inclusive playing field, it would easily be worth the loss.

They didn't intend Run to be as useless as it is, they probably don't even think it actually is, because they seem to play the game in a vacuum. "Novelty jobs" aren't in the design philosophy either.

[Sfchakan]

Asking for a job to be buffed is one thing, asking for nerfs to another is... another. Every thread about RUN whines about how OP PLD is and how no one wants another tank for super serious content. Aegis and Ochain need to be nerfed. Wah, wah, wah.

Other jobs aren't overpowered, RUN is underpowered. It won't ever excel in it's current state at anything. RUN is the job that needs to be adjusted and that's the point that needs to be hammered home to Square.

[Peepiopi]

Asking for a job to be buffed is one thing, asking for nerfs to another is... another. Every thread about RUN whines about how OP PLD is and how no one wants another tank for super serious content. Aegis and Ochain need to be nerfed. Wah, wah, wah.

Other jobs aren't overpowered, RUN is underpowered. It won't ever excel in it's current state at anything. RUN is the job that needs to be adjusted and that's the point that needs to be hammered home to Square.

I'm only using Rune Fencers as one example, but overall it looks like you essentially agree with my point. You could make the argument that Rune Fencers are underpowered, and you can make the argument that Paladins are overpowered. Either way, Paladins are the only tank job that gets invitations to endgame events, so that means endgame isn't balanced for tanks. But this isn't a Rune Fencer vs. Paladin Discussion, because what is left out of that discussion are other tanks like Ninjas, or other jobs that can fill that role.

The balance issues also include DD and support jobs as well, and I think that's something that we can all agree on. If a handful of jobs monopolize endgame content when there are 22 to choose from, then there are endgame balance issues worth addressing. No one here is whining, so the rude comments aren't really necessary.

[Selindrile]

Asking for a job to be buffed is one thing, asking for nerfs to another is... another. Every thread about RUN whines about how OP PLD is and how no one wants another tank for super serious content. Aegis and Ochain need to be nerfed. Wah, wah, wah.

Other jobs aren't overpowered, RUN is underpowered. It won't ever excel in it's current state at anything. RUN is the job that needs to be adjusted and that's the point that needs to be hammered home to Square.

While I have seen plenty of (justifiable) RUN whining threads, I've seen very few asking Aegis/Ochain to be nerfed, they're complaining that they can't compete with, well, what's supposed to be their competition for the tank slot on, well, anything. I own an Ochain, and am debating building an Aegis, I hope they don't get nerfed, in fact I hope they make the trials easier so one day I'll bring Ochain past 90. But I also have a 99 Run, and yeah, Run that I enjoy the thought of being able to play in content one day, and it needs one Hell of a buff to be used for anything relevant these days.

Also your last post didn't say "Don't nerf PLD (which nobody called for) RUN needs to be buffed (duh)", it said "Enjoy your useless novelty. Changing it to be competitive with Pld would break the philosophy of FFXI."

And if you're going to comment about them saying Aegis/Ochain are "overpowered", they are in comparison to other options, and considering the difficulty of obtaining them compared to Other Shield Options, they should be. But the fact that they exist shouldn't make Run not playable. (Though for what it's worth, Pld with Killedar/Beatific still is more useful than a Run could ever think about being on any tank-requiring content.) That's just a testament to how much of a buff Run needs, not that one needs to nerf Ochain/Aegis.

[Tennotsukai]

I know people are always going to want their favorite jobs to events, but if SE focused a lot more on end game job balance I bet other jobs would be up for debate...instead of the flat out "no!"

[Demonjustin]

When it comes to balance, provided the player base magically changed its opinion on jobs and the slate were wiped clean so that lolPUP wasn't a think for instance, and we could all look at the jobs objectively rather than through the scope of having seen and been told for years that a job is horrible, a few things would easily fix up a few jobs.



Completely remove JA delay.

-This fixes a few things, mainly DNC & PUP would become much more powerful and worthwhile jobs without the 2 second forced delay screwing us constantly. This would also improve RUN since it relies on Runes and they are tied to the same exact issue. I think this speaks for itself though, not much need to get into details, I'm sure anyone who plays these jobs understand the underlying issue that JA delay creates.



Completely remove spell delay.

-By this I mean remove the time after finishing the cast of a spell that spells can't be cast, abilities can't be used, players can't WS, and we can't attack. Removing this makes BLM, SCH, WHM, NIN, basically any job with spells of any kind would benefit, but the most important ones are BLM, NIN, and RDM in my opinion.

-BLM's damage is tied directly to how fast they are casting, by removing the delay after a cast a BLM can also more quickly Enmity Douse to remove hate, they can more quickly Manawall to save themselves, or they can more quickly cast another spell which leads to a higher overall damage, and thus, greater use.

-NIN's greatest advantage comes from Shadows and thus any way of cutting down on their spells hindering their damage would be an asset.

-RDM has enough problems with meleeing as it is, but one of the largest when it comes to melee is the fact it must actively cast spells otherwise it is no different than another DD except that it's weaker, now if this delay were removed a RDM's Fast Cast could play an integral part in speeding up a RDM's activities on the frontlines when it comes to magic. By allowing a meleeing RDM to maintain their damage as well as support capabilities with a much lower loss to their overall damage spells would be cast quickly and take a much smaller tole on damage, it might just make meleeing a bit more viable for the job. This would also help RDMs prep for battle more quickly, as any RDM who melees can tell you, buffs are one of our slowest things we have to do and they are very vital to our performance on the battlefield, buffing normally is very slow and a big part of that is this delay, removing it would cut down our buff time from what is around 25 seconds, to more like 10 seconds. Overall, removing this might finally give meleeing RDMs a bit more of a niche use than they have now when it comes to melee, or in general, since a RDM is supposed to multitask all sorts of things but this delay slows them down a ton.