MORE damage-based Records of Eminence objectives?

[Lyandra]

Man, people have to complain about everything. You don't see DDs complaining about not getting credit for the healing objectives while playing their favorite classes, do you???

Even the most supporty support jobs can bust out enough damage to pass those thresholds. And even if you can't, then you simply set non-damage based objectives. You can only set 15 objectives anyway and there are already enough without using the damage objectives, so I don't see the problem?

I can't grasp at the short-sidedness some people are taking towards asking for healing RoE trials. As has already been pointed out, the solitary healing trial anyone gets can never be repeated, compared to the countless damage ones that can be repeated ad nauseum. No one's questioning the capability of support jobs being able to melee do hit the 500+ damage trials; with the right gear and setup any dunderhead can finish them. What the problem is, is that healing and support jobs can't benefit any bonuses for doing what they are designed to do already: healing and support. Why can't WHM or SCH be able to get credit for trials for healing and removing debuffs, as well as dishing out damage? And why stop there? I'm sure a BLU or DNC would like to get credit for their healing or status removal on top of already getting their melee on. And if the system supports it, even SMN/BST/DRG/PUP pets could get in on the healing action. (they already help toward the damage trials as it is...)

Another thing would be a bit more diversity in the types of trials to undertake that's not specifically healing. Maybe one for when a support job successfully lands an Immunobreak? Or even one where you get points for closing a Lv1/2/3 skillchain, or landing a magic burst? More variety in what to do would be continuing in the right direction. The potential for additions to the already wonderful system is there, I just hope that there's more to it than just the standard "beat it til it stops moving" routine.

[Dragonlord]

So a job that hits very very hard isn't as hard to exploit? Please Draylo think before you post. It's much more easy to walk into Abyssea as a decently skilled job with the ROE gear, and bash everything's head in while the white mages and support jobs are stuck slowly curing over and over, whereas the DD's can speed this up with haste and DA/TA/QA. Add onto that, atma and high stats to ensure they deal the maximum damage, therefore the DD's are really the easiest to exploit, especially if the player can get their hands on the ROE gear early and just skillup their jobs and get things in return through the trials.

Please learn what exploit means. It does not mean something can complete a task efficiently. It means there is something beyond what the dev team knows/should know about how something can work. The wall of justice for AV, and the salvage item duplications were exploits. What draylo is referring to most likely is that when a DD wants to do the dmg RoE, there needs to be interaction with mobs. With healing, it can be done between only 2 chars using the "cure cheat". This is simply equipping hp+ or hp- gear to force your hp below cap and was a common tactic for tanks to gain hate in 75 era (not an exploit, rather a game mechanic). It would be easier to make a bot with 2 characters cure cheat each other in a loop 24/7 to gain RoE points than it would be to program a bot to DD for you dealing w/ running, positioning, healing, etc. Basically a RoE version of fish botting.

[Karah]

I don't see what all the complaining is about, mages, nothing is stopping you from hiking your skirt up and hexa striking your 500 damage records.

Just as capable as any other job of completing this objective, and all the rest.

Just as a matter of record, there is no "trial" in the entire list that isn't completable by all 22 jobs, EXCEPT for the one specifically for mages. (unless they sub dancer or mage).

[dasva]

So a job that hits very very hard isn't as hard to exploit? Please Draylo think before you post. It's much more easy to walk into Abyssea as a decently skilled job with the ROE gear, and bash everything's head in while the white mages and support jobs are stuck slowly curing over and over, whereas the DD's can speed this up with haste and DA/TA/QA. Add onto that, atma and high stats to ensure they deal the maximum damage, therefore the DD's are really the easiest to exploit, especially if the player can get their hands on the ROE gear early and just skillup their jobs and get things in return through the trials.

on the otherhand you can go to something like reives or campigan and AoE cure everyone in range at once for 800 each in meh gear. You could litterally hit over a hundred people if they all clumped together in wkr. Hell that would probably be the new thing to slow down wkr. Everyone stand in range of the AoEs and accension cures on your trust npcs. And sure while you can AoE mobs you wont be able to collect as many mobs and it's much more dangerous to do


You can also easily afk cure cheat in a zone with no monsters super easy. Even better now with 3 npcs out to AoE cure.

Also abyssea is a rather poor example. There isn't a job out there that can't do 500+ AoE dmg that I know of. I'm fairly certain any /blm could do 500+ dmg aga1s if nothing else

Also as far as mages doing dmg records go... all the back line jobs can equip Baqil staff. Tons of magic dmg and tons of macc and some mab means you should be able to do 500+ tier 1 nukes super easy possibly naked except the staff firing off 1 a second. Is it what you would normally do? No. But it is doable.

[Demonjustin]

Mages can only complete the objectives for melee by intentionally going out of their way to do so. Melee jobs get Damage credit full time while fighting and have no problems with it regardless of the content or occasion, where as mages are basically unable to get similar objectives completed unless they are alone and opt to melee, the next time you see a party openly ok with the WHM going in so they can melee Tojil, let me know, then the whole line of melee mages argument may be a bit more valid, till that point, mages still have to go out of their way to do it, and its still not a viable and balanced method.

[Sfchakan]

I didn't realize people focused on farming sparks while doing Tojil...

I will say a simple, repeatable "Heal 500+ damage" would be nice

[Demonjustin]

I didn't realize people focused on farming sparks while doing Tojil...

Its not a matter of focusing on it, any job can focus on it, but its more about it being a byproduct of the process, you fight NMs in Delve, you deal damage, as a result you complete the damage objective, and thus, are rewarded with sparks. Be it intentional or unintentional it is simply what happens, you are able to participate and complete any content while completing these objectives so long as you are on a DD that is capable of dealing such damage, while support jobs are unable to do the same thing without going specifically out of their way to complete the same objective, and have been given none of their own objectives in which to complete while performing their normal tasks.

[Karah]

They catered to the biggest section of the audience first, nothing new here, just more complaining about standard practices.

Melee get it first, then supports, then mages.

Look at Ilvl it took 4 updates to get MACC on weapons that already had skill+ 400.

It makes me wonder, do people pay attention AT ALL to OBVIOUS trends? CTFO.

[Anjou]

Please learn what exploit means. It does not mean something can complete a task efficiently. It means there is something beyond what the dev team knows/should know about how something can work. The wall of justice for AV, and the salvage item duplications were exploits. What draylo is referring to most likely is that when a DD wants to do the dmg RoE, there needs to be interaction with mobs. With healing, it can be done between only 2 chars using the "cure cheat". This is simply equipping hp+ or hp- gear to force your hp below cap and was a common tactic for tanks to gain hate in 75 era (not an exploit, rather a game mechanic). It would be easier to make a bot with 2 characters cure cheat each other in a loop 24/7 to gain RoE points than it would be to program a bot to DD for you dealing w/ running, positioning, healing, etc. Basically a RoE version of fish botting.

Exploitation means using something to your advantage, such as using

make full use of and derive benefit from

This is the definition of exploit, where you use something to your advantage. This 'thing' is a damage dealing job and the damage dealing-centered ROE trials.

[Alhanelem]

What the problem is, is that healing and support jobs can't benefit any bonuses for doing what they are designed to do already: healing and support.

How much healing and buffing do you do when you're playing solo? These objectives were designed to be accomplish-able solo (though you can still achieve them while partying). I'm not being shortsighted. All I'm saying is that the system isn't being defective or broken if it is giving you EXP and rewards for accomplishing its objectives and those objectives are accomplishable through the normal course of solo play. In other words, what I'm trying to say is not "there shouldn't be healing objectives" but rather that "the current objectives along with those being added are designed to be accomplished by anyone." Healing objectives would only be accomplish able by healing jobs so that's probably why they didn't do it. Potions probably work but would be extraordinarily slow. Can healers collect 10 crystals? Sure they can. Can healers kill enemies? sure they can. Will you do these thing when you're playing solo? Sure you will.

All I'm trying to tell you is that the current system is not in any way unfair to WHM BRD etc because those jobs are still fully capable of completing any of the objectives.

Exploitation means using something to your advantage, such as using

make full use of and derive benefit from

This is the definition of exploit, where you use something to your advantage. This 'thing' is a damage dealing job and the damage dealing-centered ROE trials.

*normally*, in a gaming context, "exploit" refers to using bugs or unintended effects of mechanics to achieve an advantage the developers didn't intend to be possible. We know the dictionary definition of the term, but context is everything, and many words are taken to have different meanings in certain contexts.