Reforged AF - Blocked on Step 1?

[Crevox]

But being able to redeem the items is something that has to be earned. What's wrong with that?

Why is level 99 items and content tied to level 40-70 fetch quests and battles?

I may know the reason (because it's the sea NPC or whatever) but either way, it doesn't have to be.

it's a hassle and he doesn't want to do it.

The amount of time it takes is ridiculous. Like I said, I may be able to tolerate it, but I really don't think my friends will. No one should even have to.

[detlef]

Why is level 99 items and content tied to level 40-70 fetch quests and battles?

The best weapons in the game still require tons of level 75 content legwork. It's not specific to ilvl 119 AF.

Oh and also if your friends aren't willing to do old content they may find themselves running out of things to do really quickly.

[Crevox]

The best weapons in the game still require tons of level 75 content legwork. It's not specific to ilvl 119 AF.

Relics, Mythics, and Empyrean weapons I can understand. However, I am upgrading my level 50-60 AF to level 99; not upgrading 75, 80, 85, etc.

They are also much more of an achievement, they should take a large amount of effort. I am perfectly fine with those.

However, this new AF upgrade... it's just so random to make it still require finishing CoP. They could've made any NPC do the conversion, but it had to be that one.

Even then, it's not like you're going and gathering tons of materials; you're just doing a gigantic quest line for a boolean status flag saying that you beat CoP. It's just... silly.

[Xantavia]

Nobody says I want everything for free. I already earned my AF items to trade in, but I can't. I WANT to do AA fights, but again, I can't, because I haven't finished Zilart. I want to do a LOT of things, but I can't because I have not finished all of these stupid fetch quests. I can't even get a party because I don't have Alexander.]I want to fight monsters in a party and be rewarded for a fun, challenging fight. That's how leveling is, that's how end game is, that's how you get loot, and while that's how the story used to be, it's not now.[/QUOTE]
You realize that if you go through these missions now, before you hit 99, before you deck yourself out in ilvl gear, it can be a fun, challenging fight. Just because the promyvian fights are uncapped, doesn't mean you can't still get a group of people around level 30 to do the fight. Go through the aquaducts at level 40 where there is a huge chance of dying solo if you catch aggro from incredibly tough mobs. On one hand, you say you want a challenge. But on the other, you want to deck yourself out in gear that makes all but newest content trivial in difficulty.

Nobody says I want everything for free. I already earned my AF items to trade in, but I can't. I WANT to do AA fights, but again, I can't, because I haven't finished Zilart. I want to do a LOT of things, but I can't because I have not finished all of these stupid fetch quests. I can't even get a party because I don't have Alexander.]Nobody says I want everything for free. I already earned my AF items to trade in, but I can't. I WANT to do AA fights, but again, I can't, because I haven't finished Zilart. I want to do a LOT of things, but I can't because I have not finished all of these stupid fetch quests. I can't even get a party because I don't have Alexander.[/QUOTE]
If you do Zilart missions, you can fight the original version of the AA fights. CoP and Aht Urghan progression will get you Diablos, Odin, and Alexander (where they are tied to the story). You say you want to do a lot of things, but it sounds like you only want to do what is popular now. So you upgrade your AF, what then? What will be left for you to do? Go back and do stuff where you are twice the level of the intended enemies? If you stop and think, doing it that way does feel like it is such a chore. Go from A to B to C where there is no danger is just like marking off a checklist. But make it so where the outcome is in doubt and I think your outlook may change and you might feel like you are making some true character progression instead of thinking anything less than the top is a roadblock to enjoyment.

[Crevox]

You realize that if you go through these missions now, before you hit 99, before you deck yourself out in ilvl gear, it can be a fun, challenging fight. Just because the promyvian fights are uncapped, doesn't mean you can't still get a group of people around level 30 to do the fight. Go through the aquaducts at level 40 where there is a huge chance of dying solo if you catch aggro from incredibly tough mobs. On one hand, you say you want a challenge. But on the other, you want to deck yourself out in gear that makes all but newest content trivial in difficulty.

I am not going to gimp myself to make something that isn't a challenge, a challenge. I am doing it to get it out of the way so I can get to the difficult content; the things that are relevant in the player base, so I can play the MMORPG.

There is a ridiculous number of battles and content that are challenging at max level. When the time comes that I need to get items from those, I will have a party and we will take on the challenge. However, this is not one of them, and I will not make it one just to waste even MORE time doing old content for a flag saying I beat a story.

[Mordain]

Isn't it obvious by now we're just looking at a sliding scale of what to interpret as "meaningful tasks"? Crevox, you aren't going to convince the people you're arguing with because they don't agree with your point of view (that it is a waste of time). Incidentally, I suspect SE does not agree with you either. Perhaps they want players to experience the full depth of the story of the world they've created? I know if I'd written all this material I'd be frustrated that people just wanted to sidestep it.

But that's me, and that's what I would feel like. You are not me, and you don't agree. I'm fine that you don't agree, but - at least so far as forum-goers are concerned - you seem to be in the minority.

People play games for all kinds of reasons, and MMOs are special in that they appeal to many aspects of what we players enjoy in games. I don't like crafting. Some people don't care about story. Still others hate forced party mechanics. And for each of those, there are people on the other side who love that stuff. FFXI was always distinct from other MMOs - even when it came out - for having a very special focus on rich story content. There are many reasons to play FFXI, but that element was part of (and clearly remains part of) it's niche. It's hardly strange that the majority of players remaining in the game are OK with being forced to play through story, and are equally OK with forcing new players to see how awesome the story is.

For you, that makes most of us perhaps seem obnoxious. I won't apologize. You can go on arguing your point. I think we all get it. I just think you're going to keep frustrating yourself, but whatever floats your boat, as they say….

[Crevox]

I know if I'd written all this material I'd be frustrated that people just wanted to sidestep it.

What's done is done, and what's in the past is in the past.

Either way, I appreciate an actual, well thought-out post for once. While I may disagree with your idea of why people want me to do the story, you still make good points. Thank you for being understanding.

If you do Zilart missions, you can fight the original version of the AA fights. CoP and Aht Urghan progression will get you Diablos, Odin, and Alexander (where they are tied to the story). You say you want to do a lot of things, but it sounds like you only want to do what is popular now. So you upgrade your AF, what then? What will be left for you to do? Go back and do stuff where you are twice the level of the intended enemies? If you stop and think, doing it that way does feel like it is such a chore. Go from A to B to C where there is no danger is just like marking off a checklist. But make it so where the outcome is in doubt and I think your outlook may change and you might feel like you are making some true character progression instead of thinking anything less than the top is a roadblock to enjoyment.

I am working on CoP, Zilart, and Aht Urhgan, obviously. I have to unlock those things. I don't have a choice.

[Xantavia]

I am not going to gimp myself to make something that isn't a challenge, a challenge. I am doing it to get it out of the way so I can get to the difficult content; the things that are relevant in the player base, so I can play the MMORPG.

I guess I don't see how it is gimping yourself. CoP was designed to allow you to do the story as you leveled up. It gave you a guide to what was possible at level 30, 40, 50 based on level caps in the area. You aren't gimping yourself by doing it based on the original design. You are overleveling then complaining there isn't any challenge to the fight.

[Crevox]

I guess I don't see how it is gimping yourself. CoP was designed to allow you to do the story as you leveled up. It gave you a guide to what was possible at level 30, 40, 50 based on level caps in the area. You aren't gimping yourself by doing it based on the original design. You are overleveling then complaining there isn't any challenge to the fight.

The original design is long gone when all the balance has been changed. Items are different, abilities are different, and the difficulty of the content is changed. I am not interested in playing it for the sake of "I want to experience the challenge of how it was like back then", because that is impossible now (nor do I really care).

[detlef]

I guess I don't see how it is gimping yourself. CoP was designed to allow you to do the story as you leveled up. It gave you a guide to what was possible at level 30, 40, 50 based on level caps in the area. You aren't gimping yourself by doing it based on the original design. You are overleveling then complaining there isn't any challenge to the fight.

People use the same argument against Abyssea, saying you could just not use Atma to create artificial challenge. It just doesn't fly. People will never gimp themselves that way. Instead, people choose to low man things for more drops per player and greater challenge. To a degree, I agree with Crevos in that if you increase player power to the point where a fight finally transitions from a challenging solo fight to a trivial one, things can become tedious. We have to remember that when we did CoP many moons ago, the legwork was the easy part and the fights were the hard part.

With that said, I still think that it's well within SE's right to make players complete the expansion (well most of it) to access ilvl 119 AF gear and I support that decision. Crevox, I do hope that you extract at least some enjoyment from the missions, even if you don't want to do them.