Reforged AF - Blocked on Step 1?

[Karah]

Nope, your arguments fail.

Plates; 1500 excessive, 15000 excessive, hell 150 is excessive. No reason it shouldn't be 100 except that people "need" things to sell. 50 > 75 > 100 ((logic)) 50 > 75 > 1500 (((retarded)))

Kings repop should be 20 minutes. No reason it isn't other than arbitrary HNM rules.

Didn't complete the story?; You don't get jackshit; totally reasonable. Nothing arbitrary about it.

[Demonjustin]

Nope, your arguments fail.

I think its more that we simply have differing opinions on what qualifies on excessive, for instance...

Didn't complete the story?; You don't get jackshit; totally reasonable. Nothing arbitrary about it.

I believe it is excessive to require a storyline be nearly completed when it holds no relevance in relation to the armor of which you wish to obtain.

[Karah]

I know this will probably anger a few people, but here's what it really comes down to...

If you lack Raja's Ring your opinion really doesn't matter. (ESPECIALLY if you picked sattva or tamas!! lawl)

I know it's not as awesome as it used to be, but I'm saying it anyway.

By that logic, if you're worried about not being able to complete reforging because of sea access, then you lack Raja's and therefore are irrelevant.

There's no arguing your way out of it, there's no opposing views, it just is.

There is no excuse at all for not having CoP (and RotZ and WotG ASA/AMK/ACP etcetcetcetc) completed. period. ((unless you're just plain lazy, and therefor doubly irrelevant))



#throwback 90s style

[Demonjustin]

If you lack Raja's Ring your opinion really doesn't matter.

Well lets just get the fact I have Rajas out of the way, I am Demonjustin, this account uses a different character, and thus, I do have it even if it does not show it on this specific character, there for it would seem my opinion should seem to matter, so, moving on.

By that logic, if you're worried about not being able to complete reforging because of sea access, then you lack Raja's and therefore are irrelevant.

There is no excuse at all for not having CoP (and RotZ and WotG ASA/AMK/ACP etcetcetcetc) completed. period.

So new players should have all expansions completed within the first month of their time on the game, because seriously, that's the amount of time it would take for a character to get to 99 with RoE & Trust but no leaching in Abyssea, and by the time they hit 99, they would be capable of getting their AF, as well as affording all of the required items between RoE & the AH.

This is why I simply don't care about your opinion anymore, because you don't have a bit of empathy for other people here, its just you, you matter, this doesn't have any ability to affect you even, positive or negative, yet, here you are, complaining against changing it.



I have explained over and over why this change should be done, and why the requirement makes no sense, no one has been able to give a real reason as to why, only scapegoat reasons, other games do it, AF+1 involves it so somehow that means that using AF itself should be restricted too, it could be worse, you're just lazy if you don't do the content anyways, or the good ol why not just deliver the item straight to your room!? All just a bunch of things distracting from the fact there is no reason not to change it, and there is no reason for the restriction to be there in the first place that we know of outside of the fact that SE arbitrarily chose to put it there.

[Karah]

So new players should have all expansions completed within the first month of their time on the game.

Damn straight. Considering having the reward for clearing CoP (Raja's) is a seriously worthwhile piece of gear. STILL generally the best possible ring in most if not all situations.

SE arbitrarily chose to put it there.

Like I said, this is the ONE time they didn't make an arbitrary roadblock. You should look up what arbitrary means. because (granted se doesn't use logic very often) LOGICALLY they want you to follow all the steps. Obtain AF, Plus one it, Reforge it.

They make mention many times over of the gear ladder (now with ilevel) so, for the last time, be thankful (seriously, quit crying about it) that you can skip the limbus stage at all.

[Demonjustin]

You should look up what arbitrary means.

Arbitrary, based on random choice or personal whim, rather than any reason or system. I try not to use words I don't know, I said what I meant and meant what I said.

LOGICALLY they want you to follow all the steps. Obtain AF, Plus one it, Reforge it.

They want you to, but do not force you to, the fact they do not force you to do the AF+1 upgrade is why it is so nonsensical that they would however still force you to have progress up to the point where you can obtain the AF+1 upgrade. To me, they went with a middle ground in a very stupid way, either they could force you to have the AF+1 before you could upgrade, which is what you are saying, or, they could have made it so that you needed no CoP progression in order to perform the upgrade, but the AF+1 upgrade would have been cheaper as it is. Either of these two ways would have honestly made sense. The middle ground is to make it so you still need progress enough to do Sea/Limbus and thus, upgrade to AF+1, but then at the same time not make it a requirement to get AF+1 before you can upgrade. That to me, makes no sense, and seems very stupid.

They make mention many times over of the gear ladder (now with ilevel) so, for the last time, be thankful (seriously, quit crying about it) that you can skip the limbus stage at all.

Be thankful it doesn't suck more, got ya, thank you for repeating the same poor argument again.

[Karah]

It makes perfect sense if you use some actual thought, instead of just blindly whining.

While you can skip the step of +1 the original gear, you must be CAPABLE of +1ing it, to be able to skip it, it's really not a hard concept to grasp.

If you are unable to +1 the original set, then logic would dictate that you cannot +2 and +3 it (as RF would be counted as af1+2 and af1+3 just renamed RF and RF+1 ((((arbitrarily)))) it could've just as easily been designated as AF1+2 and blue bordered, making ALL ARGUMENTS NULL AND VOID.

Simply because they choose to name it reforge instead of +2, you think you have ground to stand on and place a valid argument, this is inaccurate.

[Demonjustin]

Simply because they choose to name it reforge instead of +2, you think you have ground to stand on and place a valid argument, this is inaccurate.

The reason I believe I have valid ground to stand on in my argument is due to the fact that it allows you to skip the +1 stage entirely, no matter if it were named +2 or not that would make no difference in my argument because simply looking at Relic renders that entire line of thought irrelevant. Relic was +1'd through the same exact NPC AF is +1'd and required access to Sea/Limbus all the same, but the +2, which did not require the +1 in the same way this does not, had no such restriction, and in the same way as this, it was done through a different NPC, with different items, none of which had anything exclusive to a zone requiring an ounce of CoP progress.

My argument and the ground on which I stand have nothing to do with names, borders, or the fact it is not named +2, my argument has to do with patterns shown by gear that had a fairly similar progression structure and the fact that the items required have no connection at all to Sea or Limbus.

[Ravenmore]

Even for new people CoP is not a problem with Wiki telling them exactly what to do and at 99 with reallyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy easy to get Ilevel gear they can curb stomp their way right to Reforge all the while racking up more sparks for more seals. Really dude that started the thread was almost 99 when he wrote the first post after only 10 days so it's not like he wasted a whole bunch of time and could still do the content that the seals came from while doing all the other relevant endgame content. But hey what can SE do really, if the made it were you didn't have to do anything but collect the seals and trade them in people would be crying that it was giving things away to easy and new players don't know how to play so on and so on.

Now I could use the same BS argument that others throw around when REMs where under fire that the grind, low drop rates and the extremely slow progression was the niche FFXI has but we all know it was bs and the real niche was it being a Final fantasy title. When people think of Final fantasy, story is the main point and why you deal with the grind that comes from a JRPG. Like I said before story is the one thing in the whole game that won't be outdated.

[Lithera]

Feel free to correct me if I am wrong but I believe since before the release of RUN & GEO AF they had stated they had intentions to implement upgraded versions of previous AF gear, which would mean it was not due to our complaints, it was planned from the start.

People complained because they found it stupid, and many still do, that the two newest jobs get no AF at 40/52~60 when every other job does, and rather, SE simply implemented them at a high level to begin with, making it less enjoyable for people to level. In all honesty, since that time, I have changed my stance on it from it being a good idea, to a bad idea, because now anyone doing those quests can hardly get help since the method is so vastly different than that of the RF for any other job that they have no relation, and are mostly unable to be soloed. Either way, that is another topic all together.

I don't think they did though until people complained that it was unfair that geo and run were getting their af that was an ilv equal to other things from SoA. I know they said we would be getting more armour just not AF until after. It has been a long time for me since I read those threads so I still could be wrong. People's main complaints wasn't really that it was stupid but more that SE's reasoning for when they got their AF didn't go with the previous 20 other jobs and the level people were allowed to get them along with the huge lack of gear lower than 75 to use if one didn't go and burn those jobs to 99.

Back to the main complaint in the thread and about having to do old content just so you can obtain said new gear. It's CoP which like many have said is easily done solo for the most part and is not JP midnight heavy as say ToA where there are literally JP midnight stops after viewing just a CS. Or at least there used to be can't remember if they took those out or not.
Also it wouldn't be XI if the game suddenly started to actually be usefull when accepting a quest from an npc. Now if there was no oh btw you need to have gotten to sea on the wikis for this quest then yeah bad form. SE has always wanted people to go do old content they just have had a bad time coming up with usefull reasons why. It's funny that when they come up with an idea that is useful in end game people still cry.