Reforged AF - Blocked on Step 1?

[Demonjustin]

Anyone who can't beat CoP the first week

Its not about being unable to, its about not needing to, it's a pointless time sink and not everyone has the time to go waste away doing these quests for a few days just so they can get some armor they already have everything for, but just can not turn in, it's nothing to do with difficulty or anything of the sort. Besides that, if you think kicking off players and stopping new players would do anything but harm the game, your lack of sense is astounding.

It's funny that when they come up with an idea that is useful in end game people still cry.

It was poorly done. The best way they can incentivise you to do those expansions which lead to events such as Sky, Limbus, or Salvage, is to simply redo the events as they did at 99, I have no doubt in my mind that making those events relevant again helped to motivate some people to get out there and unlock those pieces of content so that they could participate. Making a point of progression required in order to do something almost completely unrelated to it is not incentivisation but rather just putting a roadblock in people's path in order to make them do something they may not have otherwise.

AF upgrading of any kind has always been tied to CoP ever since they came out with limbus the reason why +1ing relic does not is because of where relic comes from which is dynamics which is part of zilart. It would be silly to expect people to need something that doesn't come from there.

Relic Armor originates in Dynamis, it is +1'd via the same NPC as AF which requires Sea/Limbus access, as you said, silly, and then they require more stuff from Dynamis for +2, +1 may be skipped, CoP need not be touched. AF for any job in the game has no relation to CoP, in fact, its the only expansion which failed to produce a new job, and thus, had no AF, it did however have the upgrade to +1, now while no AF originates in CoP, just like Relic did not, AF is tied to a restriction of Sea/Limbus access for both +1 and +2 upgrades, again just as you put it, it is silly.

[Lithera]

Relic Armor originates in Dynamis, it is +1'd via the same NPC as AF which requires Sea/Limbus access, as you said, silly, and then they require more stuff from Dynamis for +2, +1 may be skipped, CoP need not be touched. AF for any job in the game has no relation to CoP, in fact, its the only expansion which failed to produce a new job, and thus, had no AF, it did however have the upgrade to +1, now while no AF originates in CoP, just like Relic did not, AF is tied to a restriction of Sea/Limbus access for both +1 and +2 upgrades, again just as you put it, it is silly.

Yes but I'm sure SE wanted something else than the two sets of gear you could get from beating omega and ultima. So that people who didn't get something from those fights had something else to look forward to get while they waited till it was their turn to lot on an item if the rng was being nice that day. Please tell me what other gear would you think of to go with other than AF to be used or rewarded with. If one took away the upgrading of AF and the items that were needed to do so besides the abcs there would be no reason for some people to go to limbus runs if you were only needing to get some temp key items to fight the boss you wanted an item from. People would loose interest and quit shells once they had their stuff and limbus might have died an even quicker death.

I meant it would be silly for relic upgrade to need CoP. Sure they could have made it use a different npc but they didn't so whining about that part now is moot. They chose to tie AF upgrades to limbus and thus sea access and thus having to do CoP so that there would be something else to do limbus for. The neo limbus things are now lol with the fact they probably don't out do an ilv 115 piece along with the salvage so yeah bad SE for doing what they have done with all other older content once abyssea came out and the cap was now stupid high and a lot of the older gear became worthless. So now that they are trying to make an old set of gear be wanted in the current content they are in a way trying to not only learn from the past but try n fix it. Not my fault there are so many lazy people playing the game these days who just want to rush to the top and not stop once in a while and take in the view.

[detlef]

Relic Armor originates in Dynamis, it is +1'd via the same NPC as AF which requires Sea/Limbus access, as you said, silly, and then they require more stuff from Dynamis for +2, +1 may be skipped, CoP need not be touched. AF for any job in the game has no relation to CoP, in fact, its the only expansion which failed to produce a new job, and thus, had no AF, it did however have the upgrade to +1, now while no AF originates in CoP, just like Relic did not, AF is tied to a restriction of Sea/Limbus access for both +1 and +2 upgrades, again just as you put it, it is silly.

In order to complete relic gear, you need to gain experience in Dynamis. Therefore, these pieces are tied to Dynamis progress and, in turn, nation mission progress. It's not CoP but it's still mission progress. You can argue that you can upgrade to +2 without setting foot in dynamis, but this requires Bonanza or Login and therefore doesn't count.

[Karah]

Justin, I don't even need to read your reply after the first sentence, to even pretend that the reward from CoP isn't worth the effort to finish it, shows you have no right to even be playing whatsoever.

[Louispv]

If you talk to the AF+2 upgrade NPC she doesn't know who you are or why she should care what you want. Just as if you walked up to me on the street, handed me your soiled panties, 10 random pieces of paper and an animal skin and told me to make you pants, I would also not give a damn. She is a member of a criminal enterprise looking for illegal goods and doesn't just talk to anyone she meets.

If, however, you talk to Sagheera, she tells you the criminal organization is looking for people to supply them with illegal materials found only in Sea. If you prove your worth to her by bringing her those materials from Sea, she finds you to be a dependable source of illegal merchandise. When her friend also needs illegal merchandise, and doesn't know where to get them, and you have illegal merchandise, and have no idea what to do with them, she refers the two of you to each other.

If you haven't helped Sagheera, you're some crazy person running through the street with soiled undies, some scraps of paper, and no clue what to do with them. It is a fucking quest line, just like every other quest line, in every other game, ever! The NPC's tell you this shit directly! How is this connection alluding you?

The only way you wouldn't understand this is if you don't read anything the characters say. And we already know you don't want to play the game, cause your against doing the content. We know you don't want to see the story, cause you can just read the script online. Why are you even playing the damn game if you do not want to do any part of the game?

You want to rush straight to the ark angel v2 fights so you can... fight the ark angels some more? Cause that's all that's left after you have AF+2, getting AF+3 and the slightly better stuff the AA's drop. Delve's been dead ever since skirmish/AF+2 came out, since it's all crap in comparison. Maybe do some skirmish if you need hagondes gear. Maybe work on a Relic or a mythic, wait, that requires you to do all that old useless content your refuse to do. Then the game's over, there's nothing left to do, why even play?

[Demonjustin]

Just as if you walked up to me on the street, handed me your soiled panties, 10 random pieces of paper and an animal skin and told me to make you pants, I would also not give a damn.

But if your friend told you that I was looking for someone to make my pants, all of a sudden, you would care, and you would make my pants? Doubtful.

If, however, you talk to Sagheera, she tells you the criminal organization is looking for people to supply them with illegal materials found only in Sea. If you prove your worth to her by bringing her those materials from Sea, she finds you to be a dependable source of illegal merchandise. When her friend also needs illegal merchandise, and doesn't know where to get them, and you have illegal merchandise, and have no idea what to do with them, she refers the two of you to each other.

So basically her friend has 0 ability to take any sort of initiative by saying 'Oh look, this random guy running up to me has exactly what I am looking for and could use, I should talk to them' and instead says 'Oh, look, that random guy running at me has exactly what I need but I have never heard of him before, since Sagheera doesn't know him I guess its impossible for me to talk to him.'? That makes a lot of sense I guess.

[Louispv]

But if your friend told you that I was looking for someone to make my pants, all of a sudden, you would care, and you would make my pants? Doubtful.

And if you read what the NPC says, she's having the guys back at Tenshodo HQ make you the pants as payment for completing the job of getting her the pages. That is explicitly the reason why you have to wait a game day. She doesn't give a shit about the pants. When her friend comes up to her and says, "We already know this guy isn't an undercover cop trying to set up a sting operation cause he's done a bunch of jobs for us in the past." then yes, only then will she make the deal.

So basically her friend has 0 ability to take any sort of initiative by saying 'Oh look, this random guy running up to me has exactly what I am looking for and could use, I should talk to them' and instead says 'Oh, look, that random guy running at me has exactly what I need but I have never heard of him before, since Sagheera doesn't know him I guess its impossible for me to talk to him.'? That makes a lot of sense I guess.

And why would you be showing her the pages? How would she know you have the pages? Have you been shoving these illegal documents into the face of every single person in the entire city and just been working your way through the phone book, 1 by 1, until someone trades them for something? You would literally be the craziest hobo ever.

[Demonjustin]

And if you read what the NPC says, she's having the guys back at Tenshodo HQ make you the pants as payment for completing the job of getting her the pages. That is explicitly the reason why you have to wait a game day. She doesn't give a shit about the pants. When her friend comes up to her and says, "We already know this guy isn't an undercover cop trying to set up a sting operation cause he's done a bunch of jobs for us in the past." then yes, only then will she make the deal.

Yes, I know she's having someone else make them, you're ignoring the point I am making, its not a matter of who makes them, its a matter of her being unable to do anything on her own until her friend tells her its ok. Which seems to mean that she has no ability to make a choice on her part seeing as she only can determine if a person is legit by asking the person next to her, which seems to know you're trustworthy out of nowhere.

But, overall I will admit in the case of Sagheera herself, I do not know what she says when you first talk to her, because originally I only talked to her for Soap so I could get my Brutal and at the time had 0 care for any story behind it.

And why would you be showing her the pages?

I would be showing her the pages because my friends told me that she deals in this illegal trade, just like how her friend would tell her that I am looking for someone to do what I need. Unless you're telling me they are allowed to talk to one another but in the story we are forbidden to do the same, in which case, I see your point.

How would she know you have the pages?

I walked right up to her and tried to hand them to her, thats how.

Have you been shoving these illegal documents into the face of every single person in the entire city and just been working your way through the phone book, 1 by 1, until someone trades them for something? You would literally be the craziest hobo ever.

As I said above, my friends told me who to talk to, thus, I spoke to her, literally that simple to get around that logic.

[Ravenmore]

Cause it cast light on to FFXI as a simple gear grinder that does a really bad job at it(when they try to outdate gear people get up in arms and trying a hybrid of keeping relics and reworking older models it feels lazy). Least with the story lines it is a cut above other gear grinders and out of the other MMOs the story is pretty good with CS that still hold up well even with the outdated graphics.

[AyinDygra]

People keep talking about how irrelevant or ancient these quests are (out-dated old content), giving out dated rewards... which baffles me.
If you have never done these quests before, they're NEW to YOU. They are also logically tied to the progression of the upgrade path you must take to keep the rewards relevant.

The Logical Path: (Follow with me here for a moment)

Obtain original AF.

IMPORTANT: Obtain Sea Access by (spoiler)

defeating Tenzen on the airship, who is from the far east, and is at war with the near east, where this NPC is from, so this defeat would mean something to her, as regards to your fame...

and become qualified (or shall I say: have enough CoP mission progress, that functions like nation fame in many respects) to interact with the NPC who can BEGIN the AF upgrade process, who explains:
"I came from the Near East to peddle my wares. I heard that there are simply hordes of gullib--err, that is, I have heard of the great adventurers that roam this land, and wish to be of service to them. If you happen to know of any seasoned adventurers, I ask that you bring them to me. Be sure to tell them of my fabulous good!
Wait a moment...
You are an adventurer, are you not? I hear your sort does all kinds of things--fighting with monsters, cooking, and collecting all sorts of little knickknacks...
Oh, I am truly sorry if I have offended you. I am from a land far to the east of here, and tales of adventurers are quite popular in my hometown.
Anyway, you adventurers are quite the rowdy lot, always playing outside and showing up looking as if you had wallowed in mud, correct?
Are you really so dirty?
Oh my, such confidence.
Could it be because you possess that remarkable armor I have heard about in rumors...artifact armor, I believe it is called?
I am not finished, so wait! Undoubtedly your artifact armor was once something to take pride in, but at present it is surely quite battered from your adventuring, not to mention that it has simply become old and could use a boost...correct?
If I were you, my dear friend, I would take your precious artifact armor and restore it! Rejuvenate it! Give it new life! Does that not sound like the proper course of action?
I know exactly what you need. You absolutely must bring the necessary ingredients, and I will send them with your artifact armor to the craftsmen of the Near East for a miniscule fee in ancient beastcoins!
There, I have contracts with the most skilled artisans, who will make your artifact armor shine like never before."

Go to Limbus to gather materials and ancient beastcoins to upgrade it to +1 versions. (The only option that existed for years.)

Gather more stuff to make AF+1 into the new and improved "Reforged" versions.
OR Take SE's generous short-cut to use different (easier to gather) materials to transform AF OR AF+1 into Reforged gear.

Gather more stuff from new battles to make RF into Reforged +1 versions.

...

This gear is following an upgrade path that requires mission progress to begin.
It's that simple. They're all connected as one string of gear...

It's like taking a relic weapon from Dynamis and upgrading it. Dynamis is "outdated content", but the rewards (can be) relevant today, ...
(Imagine this: the only versions of relic/empy/mythic that are worthwhile today are the 119's... why should we have to get the originals to 99 first? We'll just skip over all that crazy ancient currency, alexandrite, HMP's with a new "short-cut" item from SE that lets us take the base drop versions and just do the final quests... but we don't think we need the quest/mission progress needed to begin the upgrade processes in each case?)

... if the entire AF quest plus upgrade path was introduced in the same content update patch... it would ALL be considered relevant content. Being "Old" doesn't make any difference... it just means a lot of the players in the game have already done it by now.

Saying "Since I can skip the gathering of materials part of one step of the upgrade path I shouldn't need to be qualified to activate the quest in the first place!" is unreasonable, IMO.

I hope that makes the reasoning more clear.


Besides all that, from what I can tell, none of this is stopping someone from playing with people in today's new content (Ark Angels 2 and Divine Might 2) (unless people are going to complain about needing sky access to enter battlefields in sky...yeah... no argument is going to work there)