Reforged AF - Blocked on Step 1?

[Karah]

I know this will probably anger a few people, but here's what it really comes down to...

If you lack Raja's Ring your opinion really doesn't matter. (ESPECIALLY if you picked sattva or tamas!! lawl)

I know it's not as awesome as it used to be, but I'm saying it anyway.

By that logic, if you're worried about not being able to complete reforging because of sea access, then you lack Raja's and therefore are irrelevant.

There's no arguing your way out of it, there's no opposing views, it just is.

There is no excuse at all for not having CoP (and RotZ and WotG ASA/AMK/ACP etcetcetcetc) completed. period. ((unless you're just plain lazy, and therefor doubly irrelevant))



#throwback 90s style

[Demonjustin]

If you lack Raja's Ring your opinion really doesn't matter.

Well lets just get the fact I have Rajas out of the way, I am Demonjustin, this account uses a different character, and thus, I do have it even if it does not show it on this specific character, there for it would seem my opinion should seem to matter, so, moving on.

By that logic, if you're worried about not being able to complete reforging because of sea access, then you lack Raja's and therefore are irrelevant.

There is no excuse at all for not having CoP (and RotZ and WotG ASA/AMK/ACP etcetcetcetc) completed. period.

So new players should have all expansions completed within the first month of their time on the game, because seriously, that's the amount of time it would take for a character to get to 99 with RoE & Trust but no leaching in Abyssea, and by the time they hit 99, they would be capable of getting their AF, as well as affording all of the required items between RoE & the AH.

This is why I simply don't care about your opinion anymore, because you don't have a bit of empathy for other people here, its just you, you matter, this doesn't have any ability to affect you even, positive or negative, yet, here you are, complaining against changing it.



I have explained over and over why this change should be done, and why the requirement makes no sense, no one has been able to give a real reason as to why, only scapegoat reasons, other games do it, AF+1 involves it so somehow that means that using AF itself should be restricted too, it could be worse, you're just lazy if you don't do the content anyways, or the good ol why not just deliver the item straight to your room!? All just a bunch of things distracting from the fact there is no reason not to change it, and there is no reason for the restriction to be there in the first place that we know of outside of the fact that SE arbitrarily chose to put it there.

[Karah]

So new players should have all expansions completed within the first month of their time on the game.

Damn straight. Considering having the reward for clearing CoP (Raja's) is a seriously worthwhile piece of gear. STILL generally the best possible ring in most if not all situations.

SE arbitrarily chose to put it there.

Like I said, this is the ONE time they didn't make an arbitrary roadblock. You should look up what arbitrary means. because (granted se doesn't use logic very often) LOGICALLY they want you to follow all the steps. Obtain AF, Plus one it, Reforge it.

They make mention many times over of the gear ladder (now with ilevel) so, for the last time, be thankful (seriously, quit crying about it) that you can skip the limbus stage at all.

[Demonjustin]

You should look up what arbitrary means.

Arbitrary, based on random choice or personal whim, rather than any reason or system. I try not to use words I don't know, I said what I meant and meant what I said.

LOGICALLY they want you to follow all the steps. Obtain AF, Plus one it, Reforge it.

They want you to, but do not force you to, the fact they do not force you to do the AF+1 upgrade is why it is so nonsensical that they would however still force you to have progress up to the point where you can obtain the AF+1 upgrade. To me, they went with a middle ground in a very stupid way, either they could force you to have the AF+1 before you could upgrade, which is what you are saying, or, they could have made it so that you needed no CoP progression in order to perform the upgrade, but the AF+1 upgrade would have been cheaper as it is. Either of these two ways would have honestly made sense. The middle ground is to make it so you still need progress enough to do Sea/Limbus and thus, upgrade to AF+1, but then at the same time not make it a requirement to get AF+1 before you can upgrade. That to me, makes no sense, and seems very stupid.

They make mention many times over of the gear ladder (now with ilevel) so, for the last time, be thankful (seriously, quit crying about it) that you can skip the limbus stage at all.

Be thankful it doesn't suck more, got ya, thank you for repeating the same poor argument again.

[Karah]

It makes perfect sense if you use some actual thought, instead of just blindly whining.

While you can skip the step of +1 the original gear, you must be CAPABLE of +1ing it, to be able to skip it, it's really not a hard concept to grasp.

If you are unable to +1 the original set, then logic would dictate that you cannot +2 and +3 it (as RF would be counted as af1+2 and af1+3 just renamed RF and RF+1 ((((arbitrarily)))) it could've just as easily been designated as AF1+2 and blue bordered, making ALL ARGUMENTS NULL AND VOID.

Simply because they choose to name it reforge instead of +2, you think you have ground to stand on and place a valid argument, this is inaccurate.

[Demonjustin]

Simply because they choose to name it reforge instead of +2, you think you have ground to stand on and place a valid argument, this is inaccurate.

The reason I believe I have valid ground to stand on in my argument is due to the fact that it allows you to skip the +1 stage entirely, no matter if it were named +2 or not that would make no difference in my argument because simply looking at Relic renders that entire line of thought irrelevant. Relic was +1'd through the same exact NPC AF is +1'd and required access to Sea/Limbus all the same, but the +2, which did not require the +1 in the same way this does not, had no such restriction, and in the same way as this, it was done through a different NPC, with different items, none of which had anything exclusive to a zone requiring an ounce of CoP progress.

My argument and the ground on which I stand have nothing to do with names, borders, or the fact it is not named +2, my argument has to do with patterns shown by gear that had a fairly similar progression structure and the fact that the items required have no connection at all to Sea or Limbus.

[Ravenmore]

Even for new people CoP is not a problem with Wiki telling them exactly what to do and at 99 with reallyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy easy to get Ilevel gear they can curb stomp their way right to Reforge all the while racking up more sparks for more seals. Really dude that started the thread was almost 99 when he wrote the first post after only 10 days so it's not like he wasted a whole bunch of time and could still do the content that the seals came from while doing all the other relevant endgame content. But hey what can SE do really, if the made it were you didn't have to do anything but collect the seals and trade them in people would be crying that it was giving things away to easy and new players don't know how to play so on and so on.

Now I could use the same BS argument that others throw around when REMs where under fire that the grind, low drop rates and the extremely slow progression was the niche FFXI has but we all know it was bs and the real niche was it being a Final fantasy title. When people think of Final fantasy, story is the main point and why you deal with the grind that comes from a JRPG. Like I said before story is the one thing in the whole game that won't be outdated.

[Anjou]

Well to get the relic armor you had to have access to dynamis, then farm in dynamis to get the Forgotten items.

To get the items yes I say that requirement is legitimate, because you can't upgrade something you don't have, whereas with CoP you didn't need the expansion to obtain the artifact armor (Unless you were DRG, SAM, NIN, etc)

[Lithera]

Well to get the relic armor you had to have access to dynamis, then farm in dynamis to get the Forgotten items.

To get the items yes I say that requirement is legitimate, because you can't upgrade something you don't have, whereas with CoP you didn't need the expansion to obtain the artifact armor (Unless you were DRG, SAM, NIN, etc)

Drg nin and sam were not CoP jobs no jobs came with CoP. Those jobs were zilart along with smn.

[Lithera]

AF upgrading of any kind has always been tied to CoP ever since they came out with limbus the reason why +1ing relic does not is because of where relic comes from which is dynamics which is part of zilart. It would be silly to expect people to need something that doesn't come from there. There are new people who seriously don't care about story and just the end of the line and so don't even do any old content at all unless it helps get them to the end quicker. There are also a lot of people who dont even go and get their jobs af because why should you when you can just skip it? Specially when they're the player who doesn't want to take time to actually skill up while they level instead of at the end again. These people who just want to go from 30-99 via burned just want the best stuff with the least work. Some might say they are now being punished because holy crap I now have to go back and actually do something I now only care about because I want my stuuff. Damn you SE for making me go and do something I probably should have done before now so I wouldn't be in this situation in the 1st place.

Oh and the OP states after a reply that he is a RETURNING player who had done some pre cap lifting of CoP and not a completely new person. It was someone else further down that said they were new and had just gotten to 99 ten days from that post. In which the crying started about being made to go and do old content because he needed this shiney right now and couldn't be happy with easier things to get that would have allowed them to enjoy current content.