Delve fights

[Trumpy]

I have a bee win so far (I only joined the run hoping for moth/gnat kill not knowing they beaded those NMs out but we got a unexpected win). Pretty much every other run has been doomed at the boss pull. Something or other has always happened, whether its a sleepga on the pull, a miss stun, a bad positioning. Last night Toji sleepga'd on pull and proceeded to breakga over and over, I dont think i have even noticed that breakga spell in that fight ever. granted im a geo in the back so i am not hit by these things usually. I have had 2-3 fights where we got it to 6%, and one shark out of maybe 3 that got to 6% (all of these were before skirmish armors came out, I didnt play or at least do much delve at all since then because bout then FF14 came out and the LS i was doing with that kept gettin closer just completely died to FFXIVanitus). 6% seems to be my magic number so far.

[detlef]

The reason for failure can be different each run

Sure, but did you read what he wrote? I don't think he even knows what really went wrong on those runs.

[Rwolf]

I think Delve is fine and the content difficulty is appropriate for what it is. Eminent weapons, combat and magic accuracy skill changes, etc have already contributed to making it easier. It can be difficult if you don't have a linkshell of good players to fall back on. That means to either make one, join one, or roll a gamble with a PUG being frustrating. Which you can continue to set them up and pick out people who are good. Make a LS for it or just keep track of names, establish rapport. I've struggled with Tojil runs and I've still yet to get any boss wins myself due to my luck with PUG groups and trying to lead ones with casual shells. I still think it's a fair system because I know with more effort it's obtainable.

The only thing I'd wish they change is giving these bosses TP moves that absolutely need to be stunned. Instead of doing them having conditions to do these crippling moves (like HP%, time in, after another TP move, debuffs on, buffs on, etc.) they can spam the hell out of it. It's not strategic and it's artificial difficulty in my opinion. I'd like to see Delve boss fights open up to more strategy than stunlocking (avoiding the move in the case of all SMN alliance mentioned). Because if you have great stuns, there is really no reason you should lose if your people aren't asleep at the wheel. Which just seems lame to be so dependent on that. Which isn't players fault, the effect of the moves and the time limit you're given you'd have to.

[Alhanelem]

what most ppl seem to forget is that. having oatixur shows you hit a milestone, have the ability to follow direction and have some idea what to do.

Actually I find that it shows more that you simply have friends in high places. Each person is but one part of an 18 man alliance and there are perfectly competent people out there that either have a hard time finding a group to run with at all and/or are forced to join pugs that usually fail because whoever organized it doesn't really know what to do and not necessarily because oneself was the reason for faliure.

Not having Oats or w/e super power weapon is hot at any given time isn't an indication that a player is bad.

[Karah]

Actually I find that it shows more that you simply have friends in high places. Each person is but one part of an 18 man alliance and there are perfectly competent people out there that either have a hard time finding a group to run with at all and/or are forced to join pugs that usually fail because whoever organized it doesn't really know what to do and not necessarily because oneself was the reason for faliure.

Not having Oats or w/e super power weapon is hot at any given time isn't an indication that a player is bad.

Mostly true, typically the people who have the best are the worst players, Oatixur specifically lol. Terribad players all have oatixur.

[Stompa]

Agree totally with the last two posts. You really notice how good a player is when s/he has crappy gear and is playing at a challenging level. And having mega uber gear hides some of a bad player's failings but you can still see through the cracks.

[Secondplanet]

I think Delve is fine and the content difficulty is appropriate for what it is. Eminent weapons, combat and magic accuracy skill changes, etc have already contributed to making it easier. It can be difficult if you don't have a linkshell of good players to fall back on. That means to either make one, join one, or roll a gamble with a PUG being frustrating. Which you can continue to set them up and pick out people who are good. Make a LS for it or just keep track of names, establish rapport. I've struggled with Tojil runs and I've still yet to get any boss wins myself due to my luck with PUG groups and trying to lead ones with casual shells. I still think it's a fair system because I know with more effort it's obtainable.

The only thing I'd wish they change is giving these bosses TP moves that absolutely need to be stunned. Instead of doing them having conditions to do these crippling moves (like HP%, time in, after another TP move, debuffs on, buffs on, etc.) they can spam the hell out of it. It's not strategic and it's artificial difficulty in my opinion. I'd like to see Delve boss fights open up to more strategy than stunlocking (avoiding the move in the case of all SMN alliance mentioned). Because if you have great stuns, there is really no reason you should lose if your people aren't asleep at the wheel. Which just seems lame to be so dependent on that. Which isn't players fault, the effect of the moves and the time limit you're given you'd have to.

That is why i loved the Voidwatch fights, there was a knack behind the fights with proc'ing and then fighting etc... every job needed (almost) and it was fun. I agree to much about artificial difficulty in this game, they went on and nerf'd perfect defense saying that people were abusing it instead of using a strategy then they make bosses with stupid abilities that need stunning, WOW SUCH A STRATEGY.

[Damane]

That is why i loved the Voidwatch fights, there was a knack behind the fights with proc'ing and then fighting etc... every job needed (almost) and it was fun. I agree to much about artificial difficulty in this game, they went on and nerf'd perfect defense saying that people were abusing it instead of using a strategy then they make bosses with stupid abilities that need stunning, WOW SUCH A STRATEGY.

delve boss AoEs are nowhere near as powerfull as legion AoEs were back then... seriously. Melees can survive them if they have equipment sets for them or their whms do their jobs with eraseing def down. Yes they are not preferable to deal with, but they are in no way NOT survivable like Legion AoE moves were. They are managable.

[Afania]

I've joined quite a bit of fail delve pt just to see how they fail, 95% of PUG delve fail because leader's delve leading skill is terrible. I can usually tell whether this PUG is gonna fail or not before we even start just by observing how leaders lead their PUG and how they interact with their members.

It is possible to fail even with amazing leading skill if 1 person make an unexpectable mistake, but having better delve leading skill makes failure happen a lot less often.

Leading event is a skill, and it takes a lot of effort/research to master, probably more so than getting great gears to play your job, but most ppl ignore it and don't view it as an important playing skill in FFXI, when PUG fails everyone blames other ppl, then ppl go "I don't want to play with PUG anymore" "This WHM is terrible" and so on. But in reality, plenty of those issues can be avoided with better leading skill.

[Trumpy]

I have been seeing a few people lately that after a fail, it becomes the blame game and then they say, "I rather solo stun then work with that sch again!" and this is after 1 fail. not even giving them the chance to be better and improve. Luckily none of these runs went past the fail so there was no chance to redo but seems kind of like a bad attitude. Or they just get really super harsh on the person and its like "hey man we jsut spent 5 hours waiting for another sch please stop tryin to anger him into leaving." Its all about tact and learning not jsut throw away the problems.