Delve fights

[Trumpy]

I have been seeing a few people lately that after a fail, it becomes the blame game and then they say, "I rather solo stun then work with that sch again!" and this is after 1 fail. not even giving them the chance to be better and improve. Luckily none of these runs went past the fail so there was no chance to redo but seems kind of like a bad attitude. Or they just get really super harsh on the person and its like "hey man we jsut spent 5 hours waiting for another sch please stop tryin to anger him into leaving." Its all about tact and learning not jsut throw away the problems.

[Afania]

I have been seeing a few people lately that after a fail, it becomes the blame game and then they say, "I rather solo stun then work with that sch again!" and this is after 1 fail. not even giving them the chance to be better and improve. Luckily none of these runs went past the fail so there was no chance to redo but seems kind of like a bad attitude. Or they just get really super harsh on the person and its like "hey man we jsut spent 5 hours waiting for another sch please stop tryin to anger him into leaving." Its all about tact and learning not jsut throw away the problems.

This is the other part of the problem people have with getting wins. Somebody without the gear can't get in a group, and it seems that a common response is to build your own group. So then you have people with no first-hand experience of the event trying to coordinate 18 people. It is an ugly cycle that relies on the playerbase to break out of by taking a chance on bringing a newer player with them.

As I said before, leadership skills. Of course 18 players with no previous experience and an inexperience leader has very high chance to fail. Most of the groups who cleared delve before skill update wiped several times too.

The difference is that, successful group has trust and usually are more willing to tolerate the mistakes, and avg PUG usually has no trust nor buy-in, if 1 person fail then it'd become a blame game.

I've been building event groups for years since VW, legion, delve, NNI, new salvage and now AA VD, and been doing research about how to do successful event. I've noticed whether a group has trust or not affects performance the most, more than gear/skill level of each indiviual member. A group with no trust but perfect gear in every slot has lower success rate because it'd become a blame game if 1 person makes mistake, with a very intentse party atmosphere, in such environment ppl tend to make mistake more easily.

On the other hand, a group of trusted friends can tolerate the mistake more, play in a more relaxed mood and make less mistakes. Even if their gear/skill are subpar, they tend to have higher performance.

Thus good leadership skill include better communication and ability to build trust between each members.

A lot of LS cleared delve before skill update failed many times, made silly mistakes, tried over and over again. But LS like this usually trust each member's ability, thus they can gain experience together and get clear. Getting clear is really just the matter of finding 17 ppl wanting to do this together, not afraid of failing, tolerate each other's mistakes and eventually you'd get better performance in delve event.

And it requires good leadership skill to build a group like this, IMO.

Remember, world first/server firsts groups also start with 0 experience. No matter how inexperienced you are, you can't be less experienced than world first/server first groups. At least you have a guide.

[Trumpy]

Your mentioning of using curagas reminds me of one of the fail groups i went with. It was specifically mentioned several times that whm will need to use curagas for a a particular NM and every whm was like ok. it was also mentioned that this or that NM has an aura of paralyze or whatever and everyone is like ok. But yet nearly every time there is at least 1 DD constantly askin for paralyna, or the one run 2 of the WHM didnt use curagas at all, which was amazing cause even jsut before we pulled it it was mentioned like 3 times. Even during the fight whm mentioned by name were told they should curaga and they still wouldnt. Sometimes i feel like people listen to the planning or strats and then just refuse and wonder why the fuck they cant ever win these things. We beat the nm but it wasted a ton of time and a few people died, it was such a fail when it could have been easy.

And thats just an example from delve, I have seen this same crap else where and its jsut ridiculous.

[Renaissance2K]

I haven't messed around with Delve as much as some people in this thread, but I think chemistry between the leader and the other people in the alliance is probably the biggest hurdle to be overcome with Delve. The fights seemed designed to mess specifically with people that just want to load up on buffs and punch the thing in the face until it dies. What a winning alliance needs is a leader that's willing to go over the fight in a reasonable amount of detail, coupled with players that are willing to do a little impromptu research to fill in the gaps.

So, if you decide to organize a run, and the only strategy or advice you offer to the group is "melees use sushi" and "BLU should equip Warm-Up," then you shouldn't be surprised when things don't go very well.

In terms of mechanics, as somebody with no clears and therefore no big items, the only thing I'd like to see changed with the Delve system is some incentive to kill the bosses more than once. It's easy enough to farm Plasm once you have the key items, especially now with Records of Eminence, but right now, it's particularly difficult to get a run going if you missed out on the initial rush when Adoulin was released.

[Trumpy]

You seem to think i am mad about the WHMs and DD i spoke of. I am more amazed that when you have a group that should be able to win you dont because of people who either dont seem to have their heads in it, which makes you wonder why they joined up in the first place, or cant follow the simplest of instructions. Sometimes the whm will be like "I cant keep all their HPs up!" well that is why we said use curagas ect... And when these kinds of things happen you pretty much know you are done cause PUGs rarely stick for another go at it like a group based on a linkshell will tend to retry.

[Numquam]

You seem to think i am mad about the WHMs and DD i spoke of. I am more amazed that when you have a group that should be able to win you dont because of people who either dont seem to have their heads in it, which makes you wonder why they joined up in the first place, or cant follow the simplest of instructions. Sometimes the whm will be like "I cant keep all their HPs up!" well that is why we said use curagas ect... And when these kinds of things happen you pretty much know you are done cause PUGs rarely stick for another go at it like a group based on a linkshell will tend to retry.

I run around on my crappy COR in Delve and see a lot of DD's lacking PDT and MDT sets. Sometimes WHMs can't keep HP up because of squishy DD.

[Feary]

You seem to think i am mad about the WHMs and DD i spoke of. I am more amazed that when you have a group that should be able to win you dont because of people who either dont seem to have their heads in it, which makes you wonder why they joined up in the first place, or cant follow the simplest of instructions. Sometimes the whm will be like "I cant keep all their HPs up!" well that is why we said use curagas ect... And when these kinds of things happen you pretty much know you are done cause PUGs rarely stick for another go at it like a group based on a linkshell will tend to retry.

no, i dont think you are mad about the players you spoke of.

"people who either dont seem to have their heads in it,"

these are useless players you shouldnt stress about and/or avoid at all cost.

avoid doesn't necessarily run away like they are a plague. since you rely on PUGs, you need to join them and likely hood they would be in it. its means do what ever necessary to communicate with them to figure out if they are or can be worth you time.

cant follow the simplest of instructions. Sometimes the whm will be like "I cant keep all their HPs up!" well that is why we said use curagas ect...

not even worth your time.

And when these kinds of things happen you pretty much know you are done cause PUGs rarely stick for another go at it like a group based on a linkshell will tend to retry.

you can still network with those who have a clue/ are capable, network and you will get a decent group together.

i did many pugs before i had an intention of having a my own delve linkshell. Those pugs were successful. in fact on my server most pugs i did won.

[detlef]

The OP doesn't know who to blame for his failed runs or even why he failed. Just reading his accounts of what happened, you can see contradictions and made-up deficiencies. How can you ask for an easier fight when you don't even know why the current version is too hard for you?

Also, you know those fail WHMs you keep bringing up? They'll still be there to mess up your 6-man fight.