Skill Tomes

[Zeargi]

How much use you get out of a skill has little relevance to how difficult or pricey it is to skill up. Skill up books being added for automaton skills makes sense. This is the wrong thread to complain about how much/little profit your chosen craft can make. There is not really any justification to do the same for crafting, since Kits effectively fulfil the same purpose.

I would beg to differ, while the OP was talking about Skilling for your Automaton, crafting is equally a skill just the same. You can get sparks gear, rings, earring, and food and go to town for yourself or take the route of using the sparks to go from 0 - 400+ with a 100% rate. Likewise, a Automaton can equip the Percolator and be set on something and still gain skills at an equally high rate when teamed with Stabilizers/Turbo Chargers/Mana Channelers/Scopes, then the effects of each one can be augmented further by the Optic Fibers. All of which only need to be purchased once. All the while Crafting only gets 1-70? Where is the gear for crafting skill gain? What about the kits 71-90(100)? Not to mention the major difference is that those skill books are bought with sparks vs the kits bought with gil. FFXI has been all about change to fit your needs, except when it's comes to crafting. Back when the game first started that was understandable because there was a large group that could craft and place those items into the market. But for a few crafts: Goldsmithing for Attachments, Cooking for Pets/Food, and Woodworking for Ammo; they ended up getting the short end of the stick with RoV. A way to retool a character isn't something that shouldn't be shunned when only one craft can go to 100+

[Nyarlko]

I would beg to differ, while the OP was talking about Skilling for your Automaton, crafting is equally a skill just the same. You can get sparks gear, rings, earring, and food and go to town for yourself or take the route of using the sparks to go from 0 - 400+ with a 100% rate. Likewise, a Automaton can equip the Percolator and be set on something and still gain skills at an equally high rate when teamed with Stabilizers/Turbo Chargers/Mana Channelers/Scopes, then the effects of each one can be augmented further by the Optic Fibers. All of which only need to be purchased once. All the while Crafting only gets 1-70? Where is the gear for crafting skill gain? What about the kits 71-90(100)? Not to mention the major difference is that those skill books are bought with sparks vs the kits bought with gil. FFXI has been all about change to fit your needs, except when it's comes to crafting. Back when the game first started that was understandable because there was a large group that could craft and place those items into the market. But for a few crafts: Goldsmithing for Attachments, Cooking for Pets/Food, and Woodworking for Ammo; they ended up getting the short end of the stick with RoV. A way to retool a character isn't something that shouldn't be shunned when only one craft can go to 100+

The currently implemented skillup books were added to address the problem of combat/magic skills not keeping up with the exp/leveling rate after all of the myriad boosts to exp gain made it nearly impossible to do so without purposely slowing down your grinding speed. The only combat related skills that were left out were automaton skills, which are still painful to cap in part because none of the existing skillgain+ bonuses apply to them. The OP's request for automaton skillup books makes sense and I fully support it. (I don't play PUP btw. I'm just all for addressing glaring imbalances/exclusions.)
It is still entirely possible to get capped crafting skills on a lv1 mule. There is no connection between job level and crafting. There is no connection between combat and crafting. Having low crafting skills are not likely to make you dead like gimped combat skills can. So there is no justification to add books for crafting. Having to take the time/expense of actually making things in order to increase your skill of making more stuff makes sense. Complaining that you can not do so for free does not.

[Zeargi]

myriad boosts to exp gain made it nearly impossible to do so without purposely slowing down your grinding speed.

Except most of those EXP Boost come from clearing missions, or doing excessive RoE, Book Burning, etc. Which means either you already cleared a vast majority of the story on another job, or you're just trying to get X Job to whatever.

The only combat related skills that were left out were automaton skills, which are still painful to cap in part because none of the existing skillgain+ bonuses apply to them. The OP's request for automaton skillup books makes sense and I fully support it. (I don't play PUP btw. I'm just all for addressing glaring imbalances/exclusions.)

While Automatons don't get the KI boost they do get the Percolator which was designed for Increasing All Skill Gain for them. I'm not sure if the Optic Fiber effect this attachment, but I DO know it effects the ones that Lowers Spell recasting time, Haste, ACC, and RACC.

It is still entirely possible to get capped crafting skills on a lv1 mule. There is no connection between job level and crafting. There is no connection between combat and crafting. Having low crafting skills are not likely to make you dead like gimped combat skills can. So there is no justification to add books for crafting.

Also incorrect, your level 1 mule might have that craft high but it's not doing it alone. Your main account has to be able to fund it in some shape or form, and as with most things you have to be able to fight to craft. The Wild Onions are a Goblin exclusive items (Unless you're lucky enough to grow them) and used in a VAST amounts of recipes. They will only be sold by the NPC once they've receive it from a player. If I want them I have to hope for the best on the AH or go on a slaughter fest. You might not fish, but those Goblin Bounty Hunters were made for the botters. Requiring you to be a high enough level to fight (or high enough that they ignore you) because there was no way to out run them

Also, what about the reforge items? The lumber, the Ingots, etc? All of those come from HTBC. Which if they aren't on the AH, guess that means you've got to fight. Saying that there is no connection between crafting and combat is completely absurd. There's always been that connection. It's simply the fact of whether or not you do it first hand.

Having to take the time/expense of actually making things in order to increase your skill of making more stuff makes sense. Complaining that you can not do so for free does not.

That is also applicable to combat skills. Taking the time to make sure your skills are up high enough, or buying the armors/Food you need to hit things to raise it.

(I don't play PUP btw. I'm just all for addressing glaring imbalances/exclusions.)

Just gonna bring this back around because you also said about glaring imbalances/exclusions... Let's discuss some of those.

There is an Armor Set for gaining skills, 2 rings, 2 earring, 3 KIs (which each increase 100%), and 2 Trusts all for that of combat and Magic skills. You have no holds barred on the amount of enemies you can lay waste to and get skill gains from. The rings and earrings are the ones that are the biggest pain because they come from chests in dungeons, but you can at least still gain skill while you look.

For crafting there that unGodly Shield that's the highest tier of a lotto, a ring from beating SoA, and a Hat that comes from SoA. For cooking exclusively I also can get a katana, a torque, which comes from a chest, a hat, and an apron (Which requires me to turn in a crap ton of crafted items which I'm limited PER DAY). And I'm also limited to what's available to skill on because if it's not on the AH or I can't get it from an NPC then I have to hope I can farm it.

There's a major imbalance for those that want to take a passive time and not fight and skill a craft. Why is Ionis the only one that gives an increase to skill gain for crafting? Why do I have to be in my Mog House for those KIs to work? A vast majority of the items needed for those Best in Slots aren't on the AH and aren't restocked.

The Magma Steak, I can make it, but I wouldn't because the meat is 100k and the steak only sells for 30k

Those Pear Crepes, yay!! It only costs me 11,388 gil to make, and I don't have to spend the 24k on the moogle, but I have to travel to places and hope that regions aren't in beastmen's control otherwise I can't get the ingredients. Also, too bad the stack sells for 3k but it costs 5694 per stack to make.

The Sublime Sushi, guess I'm also going to have to raise fishing to 100, as well because the Black Sole, Cheval Salmon, and Gugru Tuna won't be sold by any NPC

That Tav. Taco... Requires the Tav. Salad:
The Beaugreens - Fauregandi region
Frost Turnip - Valdeaunia region, or if the Racist Lady in Sandy is nice and I happen to be a Sandy Citizen, and Sandy also happens to be in first, Or the Moogle by raising a white rabbit
Flint Cavier - Requiring Emperor Roe, gained from Fishing 91-94 fish
Grimmonite - 90 Fish at the J-12 Lake of Sea Serpents Grotto (Which only appears in the guild if a player sells it and cost 30k+ each)
Noble Lady - a 66 fish

But there's that whole mining, logging, harvesting, and fishing fatigue thing too I have to worry about.

There's an EXTREMELY unbalanced part for crafting. So many crafts requires a sub craft or even 3 crafts to work and you have to bounce from city to city gathering the components because they're scattered across the world. Even then most of the items needs aren't restocked by NPCs, and most people don't want to sell those items to an NPC to begin with. Adoulin is also the only one that offers a synth skill gain and that's after building a coalition. SE saw a problem with the crafting to make those kits, but why aren't there kits for the higher levels? 71-100 can easily be made so they're not handed out like candy. Much in the way that RoE is required to keep your Unity Trusts, there can easily be something similar. RoE: [Crafting Name Here] - Craft X item, Making the Guild Point Items, turn in X number of [Elemental Crystal] to [Insert NPC of Guild's Name Here].

[Catmato]

Which means either you already cleared a vast majority of the story on another job, or you're just trying to get X Job to whatever.

But that's not true at all. Leveling a new character is probably ten times faster than it used to be, not even counting the aid of trusts. We don't need skill books for crafting.

[Zeargi]

But that's not true at all. Leveling a new character is probably ten times faster than it used to be, not even counting the aid of trusts. We don't need skill books for crafting.

It is true. The base EXP boost was doubled a long time again, but to say it's x10 alone without aid at all is false. You will be using trusts, you will be using books, you will be using RoE, you will be using those EXP Ring. Your combat and magic skills are cross job applicable with the exception of a handful that are Class exclusive: SMN Magic, BLU Magic, Sing/Wind Ins/String Ins, Geo/Handbell. You don't lose those skills if you decide to switch to another job. Your BST will still have all those skills that you gained from WAR. Your NIN will still have those Parry & Evasion Skills gained from THF. The point is those skills are vastly more abundant than those for any craft, and it's an extreme imbalance. I wouldn't be complaining if I go get the parts and such for a vast majority of the things, but they aren't there. And how is it fair to me as a player if a region in starting expansions falls to the beastmen because no one EXPs there? Why should it fall solely on me to have to figure out how to EXP some small section of the underside of Xarcabard or the Uleguerand Range just to bring the Valdeaunia region back under player control? Why do I have to face fatigue for fishing, mining, harvesting, or logging when I need to go and get the parts I can't find anywhere else... Which also saying a lot because Fishing is awful as it is, and you have to balls of steel to stomach doing that for hours on end. You just have to hope you get that one fish you need only, but then have to worry about your rod/line breaking, fighting monsters, or catching trash which also lower your fatigue.

Are we playing the same version of the game?

And yes we are playing the same game, but most people over look a great many details. Your server might have more people, more crafters, or any other number of variants. But there is a huge problem with crafting.

I'm not saying there shouldn't be tomes for Automatons, but I am saying that there does need to be an equal look at crafting as well

[Nyarlko]

It is true. The base EXP boost was doubled a long time again, but to say it's x10 alone without aid at all is false. You will be using trusts, you will be using books, you will be using RoE, you will be using those EXP Ring. Your combat and magic skills are cross job applicable with the exception of a handful that are Class exclusive: SMN Magic, BLU Magic, Sing/Wind Ins/String Ins, Geo/Handbell. You don't lose those skills if you decide to switch to another job. Your BST will still have all those skills that you gained from WAR. Your NIN will still have those Parry & Evasion Skills gained from THF. The point is those skills are vastly more abundant than those for any craft, and it's an extreme imbalance. I wouldn't be complaining if I go get the parts and such for a vast majority of the things, but they aren't there. And how is it fair to me as a player if a region in starting expansions falls to the beastmen because no one EXPs there? Why should it fall solely on me to have to figure out how to EXP some small section of the underside of Xarcabard or the Uleguerand Range just to bring the Valdeaunia region back under player control? Why do I have to face fatigue for fishing, mining, harvesting, or logging when I need to go and get the parts I can't find anywhere else... Which also saying a lot because Fishing is awful as it is, and you have to balls of steel to stomach doing that for hours on end. You just have to hope you get that one fish you need only, but then have to worry about your rod/line breaking, fighting monsters, or catching trash which also lower your fatigue.


And yes we are playing the same game, but most people over look a great many details. Your server might have more people, more crafters, or any other number of variants. But there is a huge problem with crafting.

I'm not saying there shouldn't be tomes for Automatons, but I am saying that there does need to be an equal look at crafting as well

So, to summarize, what you are complaining about is that grinding has gone easy-mode so why hasn't crafting also followed suit?

Your "points" honestly do not compute for my poor confuzzled brain. :/

EXP gain has skyrocketed compared to the old days. So you have to do a few missions to gain the benefits? Try playing the game for pete's sake. It's not like anything actually takes large amounts of time anymore. You can grind a 2nd+ job from 1-99 in less than 8hrs now. Not getting a PL, that is solo+trust trash mob grinding. (Which I've done more than 20x in the last year.)
It used to take weeks or even months to do 1-75 depending on your job. You can knock out entire mission lines in a single day now. (Please don't try to argue about this part, I know from personal experience because I've done it several times in the last year.) The only huge timesink during lower levels on your first job is travel time since you won't have warp points, mounts or rental chocobos. Gaining levels is a very simple and rapid process now.
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Crafting in and of itself is not intended to be the primary focus of this game. What do you do with craft skills? You make stuff that benefits you (or others) when you actually play the game. A big part of the crafting side of the game IS the hunt for rare/elusive materials for higher level crafts, just as it has always been. Can't complain about having to run around the world to collect mats really, because it makes sense that no single vendor is going to have every single possible mat in stock. I actually take greater satisfaction in crafting something when I performed the material hunt myself than buying off the AH.

The recent buff to 1-70 skill up rate was to make it a bit less of a chore to level your subcrafts. Not to give everyone a free ride to cap. Kits are an option for those who don't want to hunt down mats, but in exchange are nearly always more expensive gil-wise than collecting mats for an appropriate skill-up synth. They are there for the most part to satisfy the whiny instant gratification crowd imo.

Your comparison of combat/magic skill-up gear to crafting gear really doesn't work because you are comparing the wrong things. You can get a total of 4-5% rate gain from gear for magic OR combat. That's it. Crafting has access to +5% in one gear slot, no need to collect multiple pieces. That seems pretty fair there actually.
You can't include crafting skill+ gear in the mix, because they don't actually increase your gain rate. Griping about Kupo Shield availability (which also has no bearing on skill up rate) is a bit late to the game at this point, since the devs announced this month that there is a new crafter relic shield on the way sometime soonish. ^^

You don't want to work to get your skill+/gain+ gear, you don't want to work to get your mats, you don't even want to have to perform a simple kit synthesis for skill ups. Everything you have been saying sums up to "I don't want to have to put in any effort for 110 crafting skill."

Sorry if I seem harsh, but what you are asking for is entirely unrelated from what the OP asked for, and I'm starting to get irritated at the thread derailment. Please start a new thread in the crafting forums if you want to pursue this request... This one is to help lessen the pain for PUP.

[Zeargi]

So, to summarize, what you are complaining about is that grinding has gone easy-mode so why hasn't crafting also followed suit?

Your "points" honestly do not compute for my poor confuzzled brain. :/

EXP gain has skyrocketed compared to the old days. So you have to do a few missions to gain the benefits? Try playing the game for pete's sake. It's not like anything actually takes large amounts of time anymore. You can grind a 2nd+ job from 1-99 in less than 8hrs now. Not getting a PL, that is solo+trust trash mob grinding. (Which I've done more than 20x in the last year.)
It used to take weeks or even months to do 1-75 depending on your job. You can knock out entire mission lines in a single day now. (Please don't try to argue about this part, I know from personal experience because I've done it several times in the last year.) The only huge timesink during lower levels on your first job is travel time since you won't have warp points, mounts or rental chocobos. Gaining levels is a very simple and rapid process now.

I have played the game, and I know that EXP is extremely easy to come by, but your excuse is that "I have to slow down my grind" so not to have to level up your skills the way you should. So how is any different from asking for something to help crafting?

Crafting in and of itself is not intended to be the primary focus of this game. What do you do with craft skills? You make stuff that benefits you (or others) when you actually play the game. A big part of the crafting side of the game IS the hunt for rare/elusive materials for higher level crafts, just as it has always been. Can't complain about having to run around the world to collect mats really, because it makes sense that no single vendor is going to have every single possible mat in stock. I actually take greater satisfaction in crafting something when I performed the material hunt myself than buying off the AH.

Correct it's not the main focus but it's still a huge part. Those crafted items still play a major role. Yes, I craft for me, and yes, I craft for other, but it's hard to craft when materials aren't there. That Curio Moogle was added for a reason, because the market is shrinking on a grand scale. And I have no problem doing the leg work, if I don't have to waste my time; Much the same way that you feel about having to grind your skills. But if I want to make things like those Pear Crepes or The Tav. Taco certain regions HAVE to be in player control. Not mention there's a different is having a sub craft and having to master another entirely. Most of the fish needed are in the 90+ range. All the while, you're limited to how much you can actually harvest (not that i enjoy fishing at all... Hate it in real life, hate it even more in fake life). I'm frugal, I will hunt down my own material if I can. I did it for all my BLM/WHM spells outside of Comet, Raise III, and Meteor.

The recent buff to 1-70 skill up rate was to make it a bit less of a chore to level your subcrafts. Not to give everyone a free ride to cap. Kits are an option for those who don't want to hunt down mats, but in exchange are nearly always more expensive gil-wise than collecting mats for an appropriate skill-up synth. They are there for the most part to satisfy the whiny instant gratification crowd imo.

And I've given a good idea as to keep them for those that are serious about crafting via the RoE. 71+ means you're likely to commit to that craft. You're likely going to do what you can to level up that craft. I don't know if the crafting kits work the same as normal crafting recipes and you can get the +10 over their cap, but I will say that it need to stop at level 100 and 110 can be done with normal crafts. (Partly because you gain all the items you can purchase from a guild at Expert)

Your comparison of combat/magic skill-up gear to crafting gear really doesn't work because you are comparing the wrong things. You can get a total of 4-5% rate gain from gear for magic OR combat. That's it. Crafting has access to +5% in one gear slot, no need to collect multiple pieces. That seems pretty fair there actually.

Which I have to be thankful for because God knows that space is hard as is with just my jobs armors and materials, But that piece is also buried in all high level quests of SoA, how does it help crafters that are starting out? Though, I will admit, I'm not sure where this either/or percent comes from with your armor selection, but that still doesn't rule out that you have a Trust for Magic Skills/Combat Skills and 3 KIs which give a total of 300%.

You can't include crafting skill+ gear in the mix, because they don't actually increase your gain rate. Griping about Kupo Shield availability (which also has no bearing on skill up rate) is a bit late to the game at this point, since the devs announced this month that there is a new crafter relic shield on the way sometime soonish. ^^

Correct, as well, they don't increase your skill gain, but they do increase your success/High Quality rate, much like any +skill on weapons, armors, and foodstuff. Because nothing sucks more than hunting something down, only to have all the stuff you need disappear in an instant when you break. And as you so kindly pointed out that Moogle doesn't sell the HQ of any item which is a major goal for most crafts as it is. Ask anyone that has made a Hex/Cursed/Jinxed/Etc. item. That new craft shield will be welcomed, but my hopes are less than high seeing how the current shield is +3

You don't want to work to get your skill+/gain+ gear, you don't want to work to get your mats, you don't even want to have to perform a simple kit synthesis for skill ups. Everything you have been saying sums up to "I don't want to have to put in any effort for 110 crafting skill."

Incorrect, I'm already 100+ in cooking (Which I got before the kits came out and before the change to crafting in general). I have the Katana (Hocho), I have the the Apron, working on the hat, and rearing the Rabbit after finding out he has a Cooking KI. I have put effort into my craft. I also more than happy to get the kits, in case you haven't read, I asked where are the KITS for 71-90 (100). The reason I'm asking is partly for other out there, much like you who doesn't play PUP (BTW I have, and it's 99), don't have to suffer. Not to mention, in case anyone that does happen to have a high end craft can perhaps try a different one out there other than the one that they've had for their entire FFXI life.

Sorry if I seem harsh, but what you are asking for is entirely unrelated from what the OP asked for, and I'm starting to get irritated at the thread derailment. Please start a new thread in the crafting forums if you want to pursue this request... This one is to help lessen the pain for PUP.

Could we get craft skill tomes added, Please and Thank you!

The title is simply "Skill Tomes" and four post in someone ask for Crafting Skill tomes as well. This is a "General Discussion" section and the topic is in the same vain as what the OP asked for. Not to mention it was bumped by someone else asking for some of the same. Still I will be nice for your sake, and post my other grievances in the crafting forum, as well

[Shiyo]

Suff.

Are we playing the same version of the game?