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  1. #41
    Player Afania's Avatar
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    Aug 2011
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    1,445
    Character
    Afania
    World
    Bahamut
    Main Class
    BRD Lv 1
    Quote Originally Posted by Xantavia View Post
    You seem to think people might actually WANT hard fights. Whenever I see complaints, it reads to me as "I want a fight that is hard for everybody except for me and my friends so we can be better than the rest".
    Yes ppl actually want challenge in a video game, what a surprise.

    Just to point out FFXI isn't really the hardest MMORPG on the market.

    People who spend the time and effort to put together a party, gear a job should be rewarded, or else there isn't much point to play anymore.

    If you're a teacher of a class, and you want your students to study hard, you'd tell them "Whoever gets top 3 in next exam can get a gift as a reward", not "after next exam everyone can get a gift as a reward". If you hand out reward to everyone, nobody would study hard. If only top 3 gets reward, everyone would want to study more.

    If you can win every BC no matter what gear/skill/knowledge you have, there aren't any reason to actually gear your jobs, make more friends, test and experiment what job and strategy works the best...you know, don't need to do the fun stuff of this game and still able to beat it. I don't really need to play the game for real, can just log on, sleep through the content, got bored and log off.

    The game(or work/anything you do in life basically) is fun when you set a goal, and work hard for it, and got rewarded by accomplishing the goal, and vice versa.

    So what's wrong with wanting content that not everyone can beat?



    Quote Originally Posted by Demonjustin View Post
    If you are looking for a real piece of challenging content, I believe Divine Might II is where you will find it more so than anything, each Angel makes Delve NMs look weak by compare, admittedly, they have weaknesses like Shadows that old NMs from their day and age always suffered, but, they are easily the hardest this in this game right now on Very Hard.
    AFAIK DM and AA doesn't reward ppl for doing very hard since craft mat drop on easy mode, and VH weapon isn't 100% drop(from what I've heard).

    Having a difficulty setting is a good thing, but if doing harder mode doesn't get much better reward, everyone would rather solo.

    Plenty of my friends been soloing easy mode AA for pages/expensive craft mat and refuse to party with others, because if you solo you get all the pages in pool and all the gil items in pool. You can probably build a relic by soloing AA all day and sell every mat. But doing normal~VD needs a pt which takes time and less chance to get items.

    This probably applies to DM, I honestly don't know which LS has the resource to do a very hard DM fight, which may need 18 ppl and normal can be cleared with 12 or something. Unless very hard gives something you can never get in normal, most ppl probably won't bother.

    Also, title isn't a reward IMO. Personally I won't go through the pain in the ass just for title. Even aftermath from RME is a much better reward for hardcore than loltitle. At least aftermath helps the pt and title does nothing.
    (1)

  2. #42
    Player
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
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    1,098
    I never said that doing DM on Very Hard is rewarding, nor did I say it was worth it, I said if people truly want challenge for the sake of challenge, that is where you will find it. If you want to have a place to put your skills to the test and use all of your hard earned gear without feeling as though you are simply climbing the ladder for more gear, DM is where you want to go, if you just want more gear or rewards, you know how to do it. Complaining that there are no super hard pieces of content that drop super worthwhile items no one else can get is just stupid because your instantly saying you want to exclude 90% or more of people from ever completing the content or getting the rewards from it. Titles are the equal to vanity items, the only items that should ever come from such things, you can brag, you can show off, and you can do nothing else with it.
    (2)

  3. #43
    Player Concerned4FFxi's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    borg
    Posts
    604
    Character
    Amaday
    World
    Bismarck
    Main Class
    WHM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Demonjustin View Post
    If you are looking for a real piece of challenging content, I believe Divine Might II is where you will find it more so than anything, each Angel makes Delve NMs look weak by compare, admittedly, they have weaknesses like Shadows that old NMs from their day and age always suffered, but, they are easily the hardest this in this game right now on Very Hard.
    Your absolutely right. I just recently spoke with the top endgame linkshell on my server, they have successfully defeated all the AA on very difficult repeatedly, so we know what drops from that tier of battle (possible pluton case in personal treasure pools, yielding 50-99 plutons as well as the new weapons). I was told that on very hard the DM mobs can one shot even the plds of this linkshell. So yes, bravo to you SE. At least someone up there in SE has come up with something interesting. I myself however, lol, am a ways away from this content, but it gives me something to focus on and strive for. So I am very pleased. I'm the type of person who is happy to have something beyond my reach, and I'm fine with this. Not everything should be attainable by all. And I myself, even returning seven months later, am no gimp.
    (0)
    Quote Originally Posted by Kincard
    The reason I keep coming back to XI as opposed to other MMOs is because of the content's lastability. While it is true that many pieces are outdated with each patch, to this day there are many old pieces of gear that are still near top-tier if not the top-tier. It encourages you to explore the whole breadth of content rather than asking you to bumrush and bypass all the old content just so you can grind the newer content. This is a model used by other MMOs such as WoW, and while I don't have anything against people that enjoy this model, if I wanted to play an MMO with that model there are many, many games vast superior to XI in terms of mechanics and especially customer service that offer such a model.

  4. #44
    Player Xantavia's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Location
    Serpent General Wannabe
    Posts
    307
    Character
    Xantavia
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    BLU Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Afania View Post
    Yes ppl actually want challenge in a video game, what a surprise.

    So what's wrong with wanting content that not everyone can beat?
    DemonJustin put it a good way. I was thinking more about the people who complain just to complain, like those wanting the caps removed from BCNMs because they can't just steamroll the content but have to work as a group to win. Or the ones who complain that everything is too easy, but say they won't play until certain programs are fixed after an update since they can't do the "easy" stuff without outside help.

    From a mechanics standpoint, I have no issue with content that some people can't beat, provided it doesn't lock players out of other events. I have never participated in legion because I don't have all the wins leading up to it. So that annoys me that I can't even see what the event is like first hand. To me, that is doing it wrong. But they did it right on the Voidwatch fights by letting anybody participate against the NM's, regardless of clears. So if I had never cleared the T1 NM's for example, I could still fight the later ones to at least see what they are like.
    (2)
    Last edited by Xantavia; 12-23-2013 at 06:24 PM.

  5. #45
    Player Aoisa's Avatar
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    May 2012
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    13
    Quote Originally Posted by Zarchery View Post
    I don't remember if anyone mentioned this, but Spoils (Seals) seems to be glitched. Kindred Seals don't count toward completion.
    From what I've experienced, it is indeed glitched. I've had kills where I've gotten kindred seals; some of them counted toward the goal, and others didn't. It seems to be finicky, or there's some condition that I'm only meeting at certain times (whether that condition was intentional or not remains to be confirmed).
    (1)

  6. #46
    Player dasva's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
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    1,542
    Character
    Dasva
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    SAM Lv 99
    For me no KS have counted but kindred crests have counted so maybe you say kindred and thought seal? Anyways it's in the bug section
    (0)

  7. #47
    Player Afania's Avatar
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    Aug 2011
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    1,445
    Character
    Afania
    World
    Bahamut
    Main Class
    BRD Lv 1
    Quote Originally Posted by Demonjustin View Post
    I never said that doing DM on Very Hard is rewarding, nor did I say it was worth it, I said if people truly want challenge for the sake of challenge, that is where you will find it. If you want to have a place to put your skills to the test and use all of your hard earned gear without feeling as though you are simply climbing the ladder for more gear, DM is where you want to go, if you just want more gear or rewards, you know how to do it. Complaining that there are no super hard pieces of content that drop super worthwhile items no one else can get is just stupid because your instantly saying you want to exclude 90% or more of people from ever completing the content or getting the rewards from it. Titles are the equal to vanity items, the only items that should ever come from such things, you can brag, you can show off, and you can do nothing else with it.
    You can "complete" the content and get 119 AF by beating normal. But there are just no reason to work hard on VD. Also I disagree with "you can wear same armor as most hardcore player" in an MMO. I don't make same amount of money as Bill Gates, someone with no jobs/no connection can't make same amount of money as someone with a job. That is life, and that's what makes life interesting. This applies to FFXI, 90% of ppl can't make as much money as Bill Gates and we aren't complaining, why complain if you're one of 90% in FFXI?

    Besides empy harp/shield and a few relic, most of the gears in this game doesn't make a game breaking difference not to have it. It's usually only 1%~2% of difference. So what's wrong with 90% of player can't obtain 1%~2% difference worth of gears? They're not being kicked out of any content for not having the top gear from the hardest content. But that 1%~2% of difference is enough to be a motivation for player to work hard for it as a goal.

    And that makes the game more fun.
    (2)
    Last edited by Afania; 12-25-2013 at 03:47 AM.

  8. #48
    Player Afania's Avatar
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    Aug 2011
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    1,445
    Character
    Afania
    World
    Bahamut
    Main Class
    BRD Lv 1
    Quote Originally Posted by Xantavia View Post
    DemonJustin put it a good way. I was thinking more about the people who complain just to complain, like those wanting the caps removed from BCNMs because they can't just steamroll the content but have to work as a group to win. Or the ones who complain that everything is too easy, but say they won't play until certain programs are fixed after an update since they can't do the "easy" stuff without outside help.

    From a mechanics standpoint, I have no issue with content that some people can't beat, provided it doesn't lock players out of other events. I have never participated in legion because I don't have all the wins leading up to it. So that annoys me that I can't even see what the event is like first hand. To me, that is doing it wrong. But they did it right on the Voidwatch fights by letting anybody participate against the NM's, regardless of clears. So if I had never cleared the T1 NM's for example, I could still fight the later ones to at least see what they are like.
    You don't need any win to participate in legion.

    I agree that everyone should be able to access to every content, but not everyone should be able to beat the hardest content and the hardest content should drop exclusive reward other then loltitles. Even if it's 1~2 pieces of unique gear it won't lock 90% of player out at all....exactly which gear in this game is THAT game breaking that you must have it to play the job, besides maybe empy harp/RE shield?

    But loltitle is just not acceptable.
    (1)

  9. #49
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    Dec 2013
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    Quote Originally Posted by Afania View Post
    You can "complete" the content and get 119 AF by beating normal. But there are just no reason to work hard on VD. Also I disagree with "you can wear same armor as most hardcore player" in an MMO. I don't make same amount of money as Bill Gates, someone with no jobs/no connection can't make same amount of money as someone with a job. That is life, and that's what makes life interesting. This applies to FFXI, 90% of ppl can't make as much money as Bill Gates and we aren't complaining, why complain if you're one of 90% in FFXI?
    Personally, I play games to get away from how shitty my real life, and real life in general is for most people, not so I can go play a game modeled around real life where I get screwed just as badly because I don't have a ton of friends who will help or I don't have tons of cash to buy everything I want. If I wanted things to be like real life, I would do things in real life, and I would get somewhere in my real life, far before I would ever take the same kind of actions in a game that I play to get away from it all, and has no barring on my real life.

    Also, again, I never said Very Hard was rewarding. The point is, if you want something difficult, the option is available, you can challenge yourself, and you can say your awesome because you won, you deserve nothing more than that for playing a game, surely not something you can hold over other people's heads and say your better for having, which people have done in so many games, including this one, so many times, that its stupid to add yet again. Yay, you can make the top 1% of players happy they get super awesome items only they can have, and at the same time, annoy countless others with nearly unobtainable items that can, and likely will be, held over their heads for a long time to come because they were 'to gimp' to get it or some such. Really, lets just avoid this.

    If you want challenge, you can have it, if you want rewards, you can have it, if you want rewards only you can get, no, you cant have it. My views on it all are as simple and clear as that.
    (4)

  10. #50
    Player Doombringer's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    365
    Character
    Buzzwords
    World
    Carbuncle
    Main Class
    RDM Lv 99
    uhmm... i have a title, so na-na-na-na-boo-boo. consider it lorded <.<

    beyond that the VH's are still good for getting shit done FASTER. so if you CAN do them, why wouldn't you?

    honestly the whole things seems perfectly fine. if it's your first time bringing a job up to that level, you might need to grind the easier modes a little bit, but you can DO it. if you're already up to that level, and know other people who are also, you can ramp up the difficulty and turn it into a loot pinata... well not exactly. the crafting materials still feel like a bottleneck but that's another discussion


    point being i have no problem with the same stuff dropping from easier fights, because our TIME is still worth something. so if you COULD get all the stuff you need in one fight, instead of grinding merits to do 6 fights, wouldn't you?
    (0)

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