PVP!

[Vyiv]

I'm not exactly a fan of these public forums for obvious reasons, but this thread caught my eye after having read some of the most ridiculous responses. I'm just going to point out some interesting points:

The dedicated 60-cap players will not enjoy any kind of sweeping changes.

True. For instance, when we regular Ballista players—both NA and JP—heard the news of the increased ninjutsu damage, I must admit that most of us were worried. In fact, we flipped out. Thankfully, the update didn't cause any drastic—or even notable—offset. It should stay the way it is.

Uncapped is broken. No denying that.

True. No need to say much about this because this statement is as true as it can get.

I think something needs to be done about BLU, as the job currently totally dominates over all others.

False. Here we are, talking about how things should be more balanced, but unfortunately, there's hardly any absolute "balance" in any game—unless you're into tic-tac-toe. If I had suggested a game like chess instead, I'm sure you would be able to come up with some grotesque excuse for it imbalanced. Sorry, bud, but Ballista isn't 100% balanced, but we do our best to work with it. That's just the way it is.

I hate 60 cap. I hate level caps in general... We shouldn't be forced to use level caps for the sake of balance.

Unfortunately, if you want to play any routine Ballista at all, it's going to have to be 60 cap because that's the only cap that still exists. Not only is it the most "balanced" level cap [for Ballista], but it has also been the most popular since square one. For those who are preaching uncap, it's never going to come back.

This comes from years of ballista experience and 100s of chevrons to back it up.

"Years"? Who are you anyway?

But honestly, Ballista is misunderstood 99.99% of the time mainly because people don't have the right mindset going into the game. The first two paragraphs of this can provide some further insight: link. Moreover, the competition is fierce these days, so I can't imagine any previous so-called-veteran players to return and survive.

Well, maybe tic-tac-toe is the only way to go. Oh, wait, it's not balanced! One person gets 5 moves while the other only gets 4. Houston, we're going to need a Lv60 cap version of tic-tac-toe.

[Alhanelem]

Who are you anyway?

Someone who loves Ballista?

False

It's not false. BLU *is* a problem in ballista. Moreso at higher caps, but I still find it's by far the most poweful job in ballista as far as taking players down goes. This is somewhat but not compeltely balanced by BLU being fairly squishy, but I feel it's still an issue. You are 100% right, there is no way to achieve absolute balance, but that doesn't mean the balance can't be improved upon or polished at all.

Unfortunately, if you want to play any routine Ballista at all, it's going to have to be 60 cap because that's the only cap that still exists.

The most balanced cap would be the lowest cap, because no one has any good weapon skills, nukes or anything else. 60 cap may be the most competitively successful, but it's not the most fun.

But honestly, Ballista is misunderstood 99.99% of the time mainly because people don't have the right mindset going into the game.

I have the right mindset. I fully acknowledge and recognize Ballista as a team game, and a diverse set of jobs in your team is much more flexible and able to perform more sophisticated strategies to gain the upper hand and prevent the mentality of everyone just coming "the most powerful" thing.. However, this does NOT mean there are no balance problems. If Thing X is more difficult for a diverse team of decent players team to counter than Thing Y, then Thing X might be too strong or Thing Y might be too weak. Of course the mentality of players and the current metagame do have an impact on this, but again, that doesn't mean there are no problems, nor nothing that shouldn't be fixed.

Well, maybe tic-tac-toe is the only way to go. Oh, wait, it's not balanced! One person gets 5 moves while the other only gets 4. Houston, we're going to need a Lv60 cap version of tic-tac-toe.

You basically just illustrated why level caps stink. e.g. they don't really solve problems.

[Vyiv]

Someone who loves Ballista?

Are you sure? It seemed like you were trying to make yourself sound "guru" with your "years of Ballista experience" claim.

You are 100% right, there is no way to achieve absolute balance, but that doesn't mean the balance can't be improved upon or polished at all.

So, I see that you're looking for balance. Well, my friend, there's something called 60 cap.

The most balanced cap would be the lowest cap

Lv30 cap? All right, bloody bolt and Bludgeon me for half my HP.
No, no. We'll have to reserve Diorama for a Lv10 cap.
Do you even play?

60 cap ... [is] not the most fun.

Opinion.

You basically just illustrated why level caps stink.

What?

[Harukusan]

I think caps suck in general. Throughout the game adding a level cap may have created a different challenge for some, but I thought it was just annoying. The same goes for 60 cap (or lower) ballista. I enjoy uncapped the most because it allows you to utilize all of your abilities. 60 cap takes things away and leaves me feeling violated because I'm unable to use my most prominent gear that I worked so hard for, and many JA that can potentially turn the tides against certain "broken" jobs. If you think there is imbalance to an uncapped match, think again. A truly competitive player will work around their "handicap" to overcome their opponents. If you are unable to do this, don't stop and blame the design. It's your own problem if you can't learn from your experience (a.k.a. your ass-whoopings).

where many battles are like a game of chess

I know I butchered this quote quite a bit, but it's my favorite among everything most people said. And it's true. You can decide whether you will win or lose if you play the game right.

[Alhanelem]

Are you sure? It seemed like you were trying to make yourself sound "guru" with your "years of Ballista experience" claim.

It wasn't intended to sound "guru,", only to be clear that I'm not new and I have some qualification to speak on the matter. It in no way was meant to sound like "I'm pro and I'll kick your butts" or anything like that, because I'm not. Experience and skills are not the same thing, and I have more of the former than the latter.

Opinion.

Did I say it wasn't? But I'm sure some number of people think the spells, attacks, and abilities they use now at the highest levels are "cooler" and often (though definitely not always) "more fun" than the ones they used in the first few levels. After all, if they aren't, what would there be to get excited about on reaching a new level? They could have made things like Cure and the elemental nukes scale with level instead of having seperate spell tiers, but that means fewer levels where a new spell/ability is learned, which decreases the reward feeling. Yes, we're talking about an opinion here, but it's an opinion based in reasonably sound logic.

So, I see that you're looking for balance. Well, my friend, there's something called 60 cap.

PvP can be balanced at any level. It isn't only, nor does it have to be, balanced at 60 cap only. People don't like level caps in general. Why do you think the level caps were removed in CoP areas? Because people hate being locked out of their abilities,a nd hate having to carry special gear for different levels, especially when inventory space is tight. If PvP balance can be improved at higher levels, it should be. Just because the JP population formed around 60 cap doesn't mean it's the best, the most balanced, most fun, or the thing that everyone should be doing (It doesn't mean people *shouldn't* do 60 cap either, only that there exists a world outside of 60 cap and balance isn't and shouldn't be exclusive to it).

Gear is the main reason 60 cap is preferred. But people don't realize in FFXI, gear is not everything. A skilled player can overcome the differences presented by another player having better gear. It's not a factor that can be completely eliminated, of course, but it's a factor that does still exist at 60 cap, because there is "best" gear for level 60 just as there is "best" gear for lv75 or higher.

Do you even play?

Attacking the Person is a fallacy. You will not gain any credibility here by insulting me.

[Siros]

Ok for one,the game has PvP... Ballista and Brenner look it up.And as for the Colessium.. its used for pankration,where u take snap shots of mobs in order to capture them and pitt them against each other in battle. And i agree that SE should bring Ballista royale back

[Urteil]

the nations are at "peace", the storyline of ffxi itself does not lend itself to random PvP battles. Ballista, brenner and w/e else they have, fine, it "works" there so to speak

and just curious as to which side you are taking urteil, as you have posted agreeing with me and against me, and i think half this page alone is you posting over and over

The issue isn't so static as to simply paint you wrong or right. Full blown chaos doesn't fit in the story line, but I can certainly see the venue of an arena or a zone being implemented with as little as a page of 'lore' created.

Felt it better to reply to individual responses in their own post.


Blue Mage is very easy to play, but it has several fatal flaws and isn't unbeatable by a long shot, on Dark Knight I do just fine.

The only PvP I'm really interested in takes place at uncap and I've always enjoyed competing against relic weapons and the top gear, saying "X cap is the best" is generally an excuse for the incompetent.

When all the new jobs mainly Blue Mage was introduced and when the level rose, I adapted, it is far from impossible.

[Alhanelem]

Ok for one,the game has PvP... Ballista and Brenner look it up.And as for the Colosseum.. its used for pankration,where u take snap shots of mobs in order to capture them and pitt them against each other in battle. And i agree that SE should bring Ballista royale back

JSYK, The Pit, the part of the zone used for Pankration, is not the only part of the Colosseum zone. There is another part of the area, which is supposed to be accessed through another door directly below the Kokoba Hostel. But it was never released. Many people theorized, based on how tiny that part of the area was compared to The Pit, that it was some kind of 1v1 arena or something. But we may well never know for sure what it was intended for.

[Xilk]

Add a scoreboard / ranking system for the best teams to ballista. I don't think that would hurt anyone's feelings.
Exchange points for specific PvP gear would be fun.

Otherwise, i think a 'duel' option would be fun anywhere.
Like 'trade' it only works if both players agree to it, and it just makes you both targetable to each other until the end of the duel. ie. one person/party dies, zones, or both choose to end it.

I wouldn't worry too much about balancing it for duels really. Not yet anyway. It would just be fun, and EASILY accessible.

oh, and NO open PvP. this game doesn't need it/want it/it would be terrible.

[Zumi]

Yea I would love PvP then I could gank all the people I didn't like and then camp them all day.