RME upgrading...

[FaeQueenCory]

On top of all that's said, a Delve weapon is not required for Delve. Yes, some leaders want only the best of the best because they think that's the only way they can win, but that's not all that's required. People had to get the wins back before the weapons, after all; once the mechanics were figured out for each area, it became increasingly easier.

Got DRG? Many Delve groups take you if you've got 5/5 Angon and at least a reasonable gear set. I got to go a few times before my Upuirex with my Qatsunoci. Not +1, the original. People really do like that Def Down. MNK, I got to go with my Ninzas, and if we had known all the mechanics, we probably would have won. No RME there. And even if you don't have a good melee setup (why do you have a 99 RME if you don't though...?), there's plenty of support options, as Phil has listed.

COR, for example, requires only a few essential pieces of gear: things to boost your rolls/JAs, and your AF2+2 boots for a better Wild Card reset. Besides that, your rolls are not gear-based, so get your rolls up and contribute how you can otherwise. SCH isn't bad either, aside from your stun staff, most of it is pretty cheap to gear up. Sure, it helps to optimize with better FC/Haste gear (and a bit of M.acc/dark skill, though the new Magic Accuracy Skill negates most of the need for that), but as long as you have the bare essentials, your job is to mostly stun. BRD requires a little more investment into making sure you have the right instruments to boost your songs as well as gear for duration and the like, but again, wouldn't take an excessively long time. GEO is another good one, as long as you level your skills to their cap. Toss on the bell, cape, and hands and boom, max potency. Helps to have other gear sets, but as you can see, it's not terribly hard to gear for.

Delve weapons are not needed to beat Delve bosses. It's just easier, but there are other options. So having that as a prerequisite for the RME updates, if you choose not to go the route of the orb BCNMs, doesn't really seem all that bad...

It's not really about just having to do Delve to upgrade... it's about "why bother when I can just do 1/10000000 of the work and have the delve weapon".
Using Oats as the strawman is what everyone does, so let's run with that.
It's soooooo easy to get Oats.
Painfully easy.
I could have one if I wanted... but I don't cause my monk and pup are only 50.
"evrybdy haz oats"

And what's worse about it is that you don't even have to win the lot for the oats that dropped to be able to get one.

And that's the main problem here.

The REM update was supposed to bring more people to the current endgame: Delve.
People who left because they suddenly became the same as a lv1 character.
People who just haven't been able to get the delve gear but had perfectly good REM and skirmish.
People who are new.

The REMs were healthy at the top because of the multiple ways a person could create a "best weapon".
Requiring Delve to bring them back....
Just funnels the variety back into "go-do-Delve-go-do-Delve-go-do-DELVE!!!"

And VW might have had terribad drops.... but those drops were ALWAYS YOURS.
Without the option to buy these using plasm...
This is just the same as not having updated them.

Personally, I think that +30%dmg will make the HUGE "totes not a magian trial" effort be worth it...
But I, and a vast majority of the REM ppl I imagine, just don't have the time right now.
It's school season.
Making a REM was a summer "event" of sort...
And demanding pretty much the same dedication that takes a whole summer to just make the 75... during the fall/winter...
Ain't nobody got time for that.

One of the things that was the problem with the REM outdate was the fact that it takes a whole summer to just make the base... but 45min-1hr to win a random lot for a weapon of "the same" quality.
And here again we find distaste in "I have to go through hell AGAIN just to make this the same as something that took me a single hour to do"...
Not having the stupid items be buyable with Plasm was a horrible idea.

At least there's a BCNM that can be done in place of a Delve win.

(and as to your "just crap gear certain jobs"... that might work on Valefor... but on Odin, if you don't have the best of the best... You will probably not get any delve wins unless you luck on one of the 3 nice ppl organizing Delve.)

EDIT STORY TIME:
Why do I think this ungodly, stupidly huge demand of effort will be worth it?
I was in a PUG skirmish group one time... there was a DRG who was sporting the 113 skirmish polearm. (I don't know if it even had augments... I don't recall)
And I think she was testing Stardiver and Drakesbane with the iLv gear because she'd alternate...
And what the log told us about her dmg was terrifying. (or at least it was to me! Mages are happy if a WS hits 1k)
With only a 113 polearm, her stardivers were averaging about 2500 (2450-2550).
But her Drakesbane were averaging 2600 (2550-2650)...
Which might not sound all that different... Until you factor in the +30% from using drakesbane with the mythic.
That's popping out 3380 on average. (obviously it'll actually be MORE than that because REMs are 119 not 113... but for an easy comparison the number holds.)
That bonus is what made the REMs the top.
It's what I feared about making them 119.
Because... I don't think the other 119 drops can compete with that.

[MarkovChain]

It's not really about just having to do Delve to upgrade... it's about "why bother when I can just do 1/10000000 of the work and have the delve weapon".
Using Oats as the strawman is what everyone does, so let's run with that.
It's soooooo easy to get Oats.
Painfully easy.
I could have one if I wanted... but I don't cause my monk and pup are only 50.
"evrybdy haz oats"

Well then why complaining if you are ok with a weapon that is slighly worse than RME ? The main avantage I see with the current game is that new players are not left out while old players are not left out either. At the same time there is still a hierarchy between weapons, which is necessary in an MMO. Math say for instance that spharai and vere are roughly 5% better damage than oat. For some it's too little to be worth it. Ok. For other more dedicated people, they will have to upgrade it through a process that is not really tedious unlike what has been said (I'm already 113/300 after 6-7 hours of doing delve 6-man style, someone that plays serisouly every day will probably need 2 to 3 weeks only).
The only thing I regret is that there is a gap for empy between the level 90 ones and 119 ones, because only a couple of players per server can make it to 95 and 99 due to the supply of voidwatch mats.

[FaeQueenCory]

Well then why complaining if you are ok with a weapon that is slighly worse than RME ? The main avantage I see with the current game is that new players are not left out while old players are not left out either. At the same time there is still a hierarchy between weapons, which is necessary in an MMO. Math say for instance that spharai and vere are roughly 5% better damage than oat. For some it's too little to be worth it. Ok. For other more dedicated people, they will have to upgrade it through a process that is not really tedious unlike what has been said (I'm already 113/300 after 6-7 hours of doing delve 6-man style, someone that plays serisouly every day will probably need 2 to 3 weeks only).
The only thing I regret is that there is a gap for empy between the level 90 ones and 119 ones, because only a couple of players per server can make it to 95 and 99 due to the supply of voidwatch mats.

My MNK is 50.
0_0
I have no Oats.

And I think the WS bonus alone is worth the work it takes to 99->119 a REM.

But it's just as you said.
It's not just this one thing that needs to be done.
There's more to the REMs than just this 99->119 totes-not-a-magian-trial.

I'm not really complaining... Because the difference between Oats and the H2H REMs doesn't affect me in the slightest.

Though I suppose I am complaining about one thing... The virtual requirement to do Delve with this.
The beauty of the REMs is that there were multiple paths that suited the player's tastes to a "best weapon."
And having other 119 weapons opens up more people to being able to play with "the best."

But I do not like the funneling everything through Delve... which, is the only feasible, realistic way to get these items.
At least until they add more ways or even drastically lower the 300 requirement.

I do not enjoy Delve.
It is not a fun endgame event for me.
For others it is.
But those same other who enjoy Delve may hate Dynamis, which I love.
And the way the REMs were before was that Mythics and Empys didn't require you to ever even look at Dynamis.
And that's what I would like here.
Instead it's currently the difference between farming in Dreamworld Dynamis or farming in regular dynamis... "farm them in WKRs if you don't like Delve"... Except you'd have to be really dumb to think that those are two equally viable farm outlets.
It's why you, Markovchain, have achieved so much so quickly.

If they lessen the #: "well you have to do more Delve... but at least you don't have to do a LOT more... good."
If they add more to other places: "good. now I don't have to do more Delve."
Heck, even emulating the previous model by making the relic stone drop in Dynamis areas, the Mythic drop off of VNMs, and the empy drop off of Abbyssea/VW NMs...
Where it might be fastest to grind delve... but there are other viable alternates...
That's all I'm wanting.
More options to make it so that more people can get to the same standing in more ways.

1. Find the “orange” Magian Moogle.
2. List available trials.
3. Select any weapon type.
4. Check the trials in the bottom of the list.

=)

Bluh... XP
I hate trudging through those menus... Was hoping for a quick and easy "yes, they are there #s X-X" or w/e.

[Dragoy]

Bluh... XP
I hate trudging through those menus... Was hoping for a quick and easy "yes, they are there #s X-X" or w/e.

It's certainly not fun! At least with the new UI, there will be lots more space in those menus so that one can see more at once, but I digress!

To expand upon the trials a little bit, if you didn't check them yet, there are simply additional trials to be taken for those higher level versions of the weapons, and the requirements are the same as for the trials that existed before.

[FaeQueenCory]

It's certainly not fun! At least with the new UI, there will be lots more space in those menus so that one can see more at once, but I digress!

To expand upon the trials a little bit, if you didn't check them yet, there are simply additional trials to be taken for those higher level versions of the weapons, and the requirements are the same as for the trials that existed before.

Yeah, I've looked now. (not at the 119->119afterglow, but with the [ ] weapons.)
And it's especially not fun because of that "please wait a moment" huge lag between trials.
16g ram... fastest internet available... still takes like a minute for the next trials to load... (it's really the main reason why I asked lol... none of the wikis have been updated for either yet, and I usually default to them to look up trials instead of navigating the in game menu...)

Are they.... gonna give those WoE cheap weapons names?