New 1 hours

[FrankReynolds]

I stole Mighty Strikes from Chukwa today with Larceny, the duration of MS on me was 45 seconds. This despite the NM's own Mighty Strikes seeming to last around 10-15 seconds each time. I was surprised to get the full WAR version rather than the NM's mini version although Chukwa's shorter MS could just be due to retreating into the shell, idk tbh I rarely fight him. But I like the new THF ability a lot now lol.

Seriously? being able to crit for 45 seconds in abyssea is a good 1 hour ability? Shouldn't your crit rate be close to cap anyways in there?

[FrankReynolds]

No, being able to steal 2hours with a high success rate is a good ability. Also I play a lot outside of atma-world, where this ability would be useful. I was just saying I liked the new THF sp, but feel free to get angry about somebody being happy with something, if thats how you get your jollies.

It doesn't work on anything that you would actually "Need" to steal an ability from to win. It's like chrome trim on a Honda Civic. I'm not mad at the guy who likes it, but I certainly don't want him telling Honda that it is just fine to leave out the airbags and put more chrome instead.

[Fynlar]

I stole Mighty Strikes from Chukwa today with Larceny, the duration of MS on me was 45 seconds. This despite the NM's own Mighty Strikes seeming to last around 10-15 seconds each time. I was surprised to get the full WAR version rather than the NM's mini version although Chukwa's shorter MS could just be due to retreating into the shell, idk tbh I rarely fight him. But I like the new THF ability a lot now lol.

Chukwa does not have any sort of "mini" Mighty Strikes; it has always been the full 45 seconds it's supposed to be. Additionally, it doesn't ever retreat back into its shell unless its Mighty Strikes have expired (that's how the NM works; it drops its defenses whenever casting or using a WS, or whenever Mighty Strikes is up).

It's nice to know that you seem to get the full duration of the SP stolen regardless of how much of it has already been used up on the enemy, though.

[dasva]

If by lately you mean the last 8 years or so then yes. And no one is saying it's the only one it's just right now in a thread about sp2s it is getting dicked over in the sp2 category supposedly for reasons that don't even realistically apply to the game.

As far as the side points you are making the thing is it isn't a matter of players liking it or using it more or even SE whimisically bostowing yums here and there sometimes one job and sometimes another but consistently to sam so much is rdm consistently has gotten the least out of any update if anything at all for longer than most people have played the game. Finding a good use for the ability implies that there are enfeebles that are game breaking if you can land them. There aren't. It also implies that you couldn't land the spell on the mob without immunobreak before now since everything that can land without immunobreak will land with elemental seal but it does seem like sytmie also gets around this sorta soft immunity. On everything else elemental seal will do the same thing except from a subjob on a 10 min timer and all spells and the blm sp2 will do that for duration with -emnity. If they specifically go out of there way to make a mob that caters to this sp2 it might be good in that situation. Such a situation doesn't exist currently. And saying things like hey landing sleep and silence several times in a minute because they stop enemy actions when they will last longer than that unless they get resisted just doesn't make sense. Even less so in a game where they are perfectly fine with people stun locking mobs for minutes at a time or letting blu litterally aoe petrify as much as it wants for a full minute

The thing is you I'd hate to come out and just say it but you are wrong on how good rdm is right now. Like you say sticking enfeebles. But right now sch and rdm are pretty much tied with macc on enfeeble unbuffed. Well before this update I haven't done new gear sets since it since it just happened. Before the ilvl skill to macc update sch was waaaaaaaaaay ahead. But then sch gets weather, klimaform and focalization and will come out slightly ahead. Though it doesn't really matter since the debuffs you were using could be landed with good sets before the ilvl update at a decent rate and now with another 200 or so macc are a joke to land. Mp efficient they are again about even until you factor in stratagems. Ok sch will never be a good melee on anything anywhere near your ilvl and it wont have quite the survivial rate. But in any pt function sch is preferable to rdm

[Bluestar2kx]

So basically what you're saying is proving my point. To a degree.
Monk was basically ignored by, pretty much everyone as far as gear, new abilities (oh boy, we got footwork!), but most esp players in most situations except the old KRT parties. Unless you had no other 75 job, then you got invited to chi blast kirin for an hour. In those respects, I can sympathize with Red mage, because that was my life for about a year into my endgame time (about 2007-8 by the time I went for such events) but i was always told to come summoner, or white mage.

This isn't a new problem, nor is it exclusive to red mage.
The biggest difference is red mage had very little JA's, monk had a lot.
I think Ranger was in such a unloved case too, except for endgame however, after the range attack adjustments. (though it too got new JAs) Same with black mage after Toau.

Moving on to this new ability.
I think it's only fair to reserve judgment until we see if they carry out their statement that new events are coming that will favor this ability. Perhap it doesn't just have macc, perhaps it has potency, something that increases the power of the enfeebling spell cast with the ability active so it proc's more often on more powerful monsters. It just came out a few days ago after all, we need to test it and see if it does. Wouldn't be the first time SE added something with a hidden effect, nor are they always forthcoming about hiding effects.

Obviously i'm not a career red mage, so I've no way to test this in any situation, nor am I in adoulin events as of yet.
But I don't think giving SE a fair chance is unreasonable. This ability could be useful, maybe not in adoulin, but new content it maybe, and as I said, it may have effects we don't know about yet, effects that could make that new content need or even require a red mage, or multiple red mages.

As for red mage vs scholar.
They may be tied for macc, but not the enfeebling spell selection. Red mage still wins that category, although (again not being a high level red mage) I can't test the potency of the tier 2 enfeebling merit spells vs the regular. Phalanx I don't know about, the stats on wiki show it's basically the same as the tier 2 except can be cast on others without using accession.

Scholar definitely wins in raw nuking power, which is fun on scholar ^^ But you burn MP so fast (poor black mage lol) sublimation isn't enough to keep up, and overwrites refresh ;; At my scholar's level so far, refresh 2 would be nicer than sublimation. Stratagems help of course, but spending them all on parsimony to conserve mp seems wasteful.

But red mage would be able to cast more frequently, possibility evening up the damage gap with endgame staves. My friend was telling me stone I can hit like a truck and almost reach stone III damage with the right gear and III can reach almost IV's damage. So I don't know if scholar having tier V access is great or not as he said it doesn't scale the same way as tier 1, 2 and 3 do with that gear, 4 and 5 seem to stagnate in scaling. But i can't compare yet sadly, only my automation has tier V access, and she's only averaging about 1k unresisted lol.

As for melee power, well, I don't know the endgame practicality of that, but for my work it could be very helpful with the right equipment. Might help (with good gear and /war) to keep my partner who's a black mage from dying all the time lol. (yeah, totally over nukes) Maybe i won't refresh :P muhahaha! ^.~

But anyway, to close, because i want to go back to bed. ^^

Complaining all the time, esp the way the other poster was, is not solving the problem. Sure be vocal, and express a problem, it won't be solved otherwise. But complaining constantly to the annoyance of other posters is a problem in itself. Surely we're better members of the community then that?

[dasva]

I beleive we have different definitions of proving your point <.<

Not sure I get your mnk point. At 75 was it kinda underloved? Sure though it did have one of the best DD 2hrs. For the last several years since then not so much. It's been getting alot and has stayed one of the best or the best DD and it's sp2 is pretty damn good as if unlocking one of best ws in the game wasn't enough for 1 update

I think it's fair to judge it by what is currently out. You can what if all you want but that doesn't change how things are now. What if they invent a mob that takes 10000X dmg from counters? Oh my everyone would be mnk or /mnk. The fact that they could do that does not in fact make counterstance any better. As far as potency I will agree that occasionally they do sneak things in I mean they snuck in counter rate to mnks (though iirc that was part of the original idea for it's sp2) but for rdm that wouldn't be the case. They specifically said it wouldn't increase potency. And I can only think of one time they specifically said something would definitely happen and then go back on it.

I'll repeat the what if isn't a real argument again here... as far as other abilities idk if you've read but SE members have come in and defended that it was good just as is no hidden abilities. That just landing sleep and silence multiple times would be overpowered. If there really was some kind of hidden effect in there that redeems it that they put in that would mean there explanations were flat out lieing when they were defending it. Do you really think SE would add an ability that looks like it sucks but has some hidden good effect and then when it comes time to calm the masses about it instead of revealing that it has something else good about it lie and say that no just the part that we know of that sucks is actually good? That said going to start testing my current theories on it

Slow 2 is 39% vs 25% slow if fully meritted and with capped dmnd. Paralyze I/II doesn't have concrete numbers but against the nms neither procs well. Blind II is the same potency of nins blind. Dia/bio III are just as strong as II with quickdraw. Phalanx 2 back at 75 was actually worse then phalanx now at 99 5/5 phalanx 2 is exactly the same as phalanx but ya know without having to use 5/10 group 2 merits. Now being able to cast them directly on others instead of of having to get within AOE range well risk eating AOEs is a slight benefit but it's kinda mitigated with the fact sch can increase duration by 2.5X and well embrava to keep folks alive.

Nuking wise really the thing to do now is just spam tier 1s. Which should put them close though sch getting much better nuking weapons and gearing/jas would put it a little ahead there still. As far as refresh II vs sublimation that's only because you would have a higher lvl rdm casting it then you using sublimation. Refresh II is 6 and you get it at 82, at 75 sublimation is 6, at 85 it's 7, 95 it's 8.

And yes tier one nuking is the thing now. This is because new staffs add a set amount of dmg to every magic spells base dmg so obviously percentage wise helps lower base dmg spells more and with how little they cost and how fast they cast now it's just alot better. Basically new staffs do pretty much same dmg as the 35% boost trial staffs for T5 but adding 200 or so base dmg to stone 1 will litterally triple it's dmg. So basically the new staffs have kept T5 dmg exactly where it was while double to tripling T1 spells and you can basically chainspell them. Do 1k dmg for 4 mp or 4k for 156 <.<. But this is wear sch takes a bit of a lead. Yes it will cast slightly slower but it also gets to do things like take advantage of weather dmg bonus (and even more with their af3 boots) but mostly it's the fact that they get a staff that has +248 magic dmg on it but rdm only gets one with 151 though it does get a little int and mab. This is partly because right now the only weapons that rdm gets that are higher than ilvl 113 are swds which don't get that.

Oh yeah low man playing around rdm rocks. Largely because while it might not really be meaningfully tops in anything it can do a okish job at just about everything. And I'm sure it would probably melee better than every other mage out there except blu and probably beat out a few non mages too like um pld or thf and probably nin too. Though some of that is things like temper which really should be allowed to be casts on party members. That alone would make rdm a better support than an extra sch or geo.

I can't speak for other people but I try to voice my concerns over the exact nature of the problem with using knowledge from the game alot of which I personally test or borrow from others who preform well thought out tests of things to explain why things are a problem. Sometimes repeatidly in hopes of getting people in general but SE in hopes they might understand it. In the case of the players to let them know what they are in for and combine info and such and in the case of SE to hope they fix problems they haven't forseen. After all they are basically a skeleton crew right now and don't really have the manpower to test flat out glitches (I mean check out a lot of the items added this update. They don't have names on the english clients lol) let alone play the game and test how game mechanics and strategies work and interact and could use our help (I mean heck that's kinda the entire point of the test server)

[Zarchery]

I haven't tried many of them yet.

I love the new BST ability. They should have put this in as the first instead of Familiar.

The MNK ability might be nice if it lasted more than 30 seconds. Who needs a boost of HP that short lived?

[dasva]

The MNK ability might be nice if it lasted more than 30 seconds. Who needs a boost of HP that short lived?

I've read it gives you 100% counter rate as well