New 1 hours

[Karah]

Ok for Larceny, as it currently stands, let's be completely honest.

Is it a little lackluster? Yes
Is it pretty awesome when the enemy does in fact have an SP? Yes

Here's the thing though, thf isn't being taken to anything that matters anymore.
So in theory it's one of, if not the most amazing SP ever, but in actual use it's basically useless.

Steal the WARs MS for some lol damage,
Steal a MNKs Hundo, /legit,
steal chainspell to save your life in true SP fashion, /hurray!
The other 19 SP abilities.... not so much =/ Many of which aren't even steal able, Mijin, Meiyko, Bene, Flow, Overdrive(?), Familiar, Spirit Surge (which enemy Dragoons do not even get lol) Wildcard, EES.... Bolster...

I mean come on, really? ~50%Cannot be stolen. 50% Can be, and 10% are of some value?

Does the ability to steal any regular ability really matter that much? Aside from a few select awesome times (stealing boost from Yovra etc) Nope., It really does need to steal many, if not indeed all active buffs to be a real 2hour (SP).

I mean, that's the original definition of the 2hour, to be used in a life or death situation, not to be consistently disappointed at every use.

[dasva]

Larceny should be bumped to full buff steal. ie you take every single buff the enemy has including any sps. Not going to redeem thf probably but god it would be fun to steal all of something like Carcharian Verve. Or even awesome when it steals a buff instead of just the thf getting it the entire pt does. Or for crazy tech when it steals a buff it inflicts an opposite but equal debuff on the mob at the same time. ie you steal some super haste they get some super slow.

[Ophannus]

Meanwhile, I'm sure nobody is complaining about SAM's new SP2 because it's ridiculously, phenomenally, incredigood.

According to Llewelyn:

Confirmed:
- 45 second duration.
- Stacks with Meikyo Shisui.
- Avoids physical, magical and breath abilities.
- 20% Weapon Skill Damage increase per ability evaded.
- 60% Weapon Skill Damage cap.
- Grants 50% TP for every ability evaded.
- WSD% bonus does not reset upon weapon skilling.

Compared to many other SP2s, this is incredibly potent.


Can't Larceny be patched to steal something else. Like:

-Steal all of a mob's current TP.
-Steal a large number of Attributes.
-Steal a temp item i.e Berserk's Tonic/Fanatic's Powder/Lucid Elixir(would be random)
-Add a 60 second 'Bully' effect on the target
-Add a powerful Critical Hit Evasion Down debuff

etc

SAM and MNK's SP2s do so many things(Inner Strength doubles Max HP, heals them AND gives 100% counter) whereas many other SP2s just do one thing, and usually with a shorter duration.

Maybe Unbridled Wisdom could heal a BLU's MP to full considering they're combat mages and may not always have enough MP to cast more than a few spells (especially because UL spells are so expensive to cast), it also adds a secondary effect to the SP2 for some BLUs that have yet to learn many spells, it at least gives some kind of benefit in that case.

[Zephrose]

My statement still stands. It doesn't seem you see the strengths of Rdm that others might see. And the reason this might be is clear in your continuous debate. The job is not curbed to your liking or vision. If you want to make Rdm more front line hybrid, go for it. But the game is only going to give you so many tools to do so. This has been the case since it's existence in FFXI. I simply pointed out Whm in the same light because it has some interesting tools that it may never fully use, similar to Rdm. This goes for Brd as well.

I'm not going to state my points if you already know the job so well. If you have such knowledge, then I suggest you use it.

And lastly, this is a service you pay for. Much like going into an amusement park. You pay a fee to get in an have fun with the services offered. If you don't like the service, there are plenty of other parks to choose from. You wouldn't expect Disney Land to change a ride because you thought it wasn't "Fun" enough just because you paid. They'd simply tell you sorry to hear your feedback and wish you a better time.

Enough trolling for the day. Have fun.

[Demon6324236]

My statement still stands. It doesn't seem you see the strengths of Rdm that others might see.

I'm not going to state my points if you already know the job so well. If you have such knowledge, then I suggest you use it.

This is the entire issue with the debate here about RDM's use. One side says the job sucks and needs to be fixed, providing ideas and ways it can be as well as examples of the issues the job faces. The other side says the job is fine, complains about people complaining about it, and refuses to give examples of its power that leads them to believe its good in the first place. If you can not provide examples of how its good, better than the other options and not just a mediocre replacement, then your argument has no backbone, your just sayings its good without any reasons or facts as to why it is.

And lastly, this is a service you pay for. Much like going into an amusement park. You pay a fee to get in an have fun with the services offered. If you don't like the service, there are plenty of other parks to choose from. You wouldn't expect Disney Land to change a ride because you thought it wasn't "Fun" enough just because you paid. They'd simply tell you sorry to hear your feedback and wish you a better time.

Disney Land also would not keep a ride the way it is if at all when no one likes it, if no one rides that ride, its nothing more than a waste of space, in this case, some people do ride that ride, but so few people do and there is another ride right next to it which 90% of the people riding them agree, is better.

[Twille]

What exactly do you want from RDM that you aren't getting?

[Demon6324236]

What exactly do you want from RDM that you aren't getting?

A job with a use that can not be filled so easily by another job.

To be more specific I suppose in this case, changes to the job to allow melee to be useful, more gear like BLU has so we seem like a real hybrid, a trait that lets us melee while casting, and unique enfeebles with the inability to be cast by anyone besides RDM, and enough potency to make RDM worth bringing, even if not necessary, by easing the fight through restrictions on the monster in question.

[dasva]

What exactly do you want from RDM that you aren't getting?

That's not necessarily the point the point would be what exactly would you want from a support job that rdm offers that you can't get with others?

[Zephrose]

Rdm Points:
Solo-ability
Shadow Tanking
Easy access to cap fast cast
Quick Response crowd control
Quick Response support
Quick Response Stun lock
Longer lasting enfeebles
Easier access to PDT and MDT gear

Background:
Since Rdm's haydays of years past, Rdm has been primarily a solo mage. What I mean by that is, they are selfish mages. A lot of their spells were self targeting and not share-able. I'm sure you know. But since the addition of Sch, Rdm has been able to turn that around. They added a party flavor to Rdm that wasnt once there. This also came shortly after they nerf Rdm on some of their solo aspects such as kiting and the like. Basically, they wanted Rdm to get back into the mix.

Pre-75s, Rdm/Sch was so top notch, it was insane. Salvage was easier with it. Low man anything was easier with it. Post-75 days, Whm took over. Rdm was not up to snuff for curing such large amounts of HP in abyssea, had limited access to procs and for obvious reasons no DD. Since then, the transition has moved to Sch with it's great gear selection and constant ask to stun with strategems. Yes, Sch can help support and help cure and help enfeeble but really in those runs they have a set role with no deviation. That's where Rdm comes in. To facilitate those needs to help support the group. It's almost like the times when Rdm was very helpful for Kirin runs or Jailer pops or Sandworm fights or what have you. The very nature of Rdm is jack of all trades, master of none. If you ask them to make better over another job, they would be breaking that core aspect.

Rdms, at a time, use to be the solo kings. I know, I was up there with them. I use to solo stuff on Rdm and farm pops or items to use later. It was fun. When they broke it, I was angry. But I found another way with support low man tanking. Rdm/nin was and still is pretty bad ass. But it doesn't get use today because there is no need for it anymore. There's really no need to solo anything on Rdm old school when you can just take a DD up to it and blow it up.

Rdm play aspect is always changing, just like all 22 of the other jobs. It's the evolution of the game and what the developers put into it. Yelling and screaming about how you don't like the job and want it the way YOU want it, isn't going to make them change anything. My analogy of the amusement park was just that. If you wanted into Disney land and told them you didnt like space mountain because it didnt have all the loops or falls you wanted, they would laugh and tell you to go somewhere else. But enough people like the ride to not warrant a change and so they dont touch it. This is no different.

Do you realize that really 1% of the people playing the game post on these forums? And maybe 20% of those playing come to read this bu*$#&@t? Those numbers might have grown since the loss of players but really, there's not a ot of people complaining about Rdm.

And not to say the pebble can not move the mountain if it really tried but in this case, SE's statistics will be the only proving grounds to whether the job is failing or not. And to tell you the truth, this is the last place they are looking for statistics.

[Demon6324236]

Rdm Points:
Solo-ability
Shadow Tanking
Easy access to cap fast cast
Quick Response crowd control
Quick Response support
Quick Response Stun lock
Longer lasting enfeebles
Easier access to PDT and MDT gear

Solo is great, but so many jobs can solo now days and some better than RDM, not really a good role to fill either when no content worth doing today can be soloed except a few NMs outside of Delve maybe, about it.

Shadow tanking is really not to great, the only time we get to /NIN is solo, so really its the same as above all over again.

Easy to cap Fast Cast is like saying WHM can easily cap cure potency, sure, it can do it easier, that doesn't really make it a good job just for that reason, its just less work to attain the same goal just about every mage can these days, especially in their respective magic field. The next three points fall into this same thing, Quick Response bleh is basically just Fast Cast's effects, that's about it.

Quick Response Stun Lock is funny, SCH Stuns so much better than us without a SP its made CSSing go out of date, people use SCHs now because of that.

Longer lasting enfeebles, unless you mean via Saboteur I don't think we actually get a duration bonus, except maybe our +2 Body, in which case 10% is worth what? 5 seconds? And they take no time to cast so that's not even important really.

Easier access to PDT/MDT gear. For PDT, RDM uses full Gendewitha, Dark Rings, Darkness Earring, Black Earring, Shikargar, Genbu's Shield, Twilight Torque, and Flume Belt, leaving room for Shadow Mantle. Of that list the only 3 pieces a SCH can not use are the Sword, Shield, and Belt, the Sword and Shield are replaced by a staff from the AH, the belt is replaced by a back piece. This leaves our PDT sets different, and SCH actually being easier to cap because they can avoid 2 NMs and an entire series of trials, however they lose out on the Nulls from the Shadow Mantle.

Since Rdm's haydays of years past, Rdm has been primarily a solo mage. What I mean by that is, they are selfish mages. A lot of their spells were self targeting and not share-able. I'm sure you know. But since the addition of Sch, Rdm has been able to turn that around. They added a party flavor to Rdm that wasnt once there. This also came shortly after they nerf Rdm on some of their solo aspects such as kiting and the like. Basically, they wanted Rdm to get back into the mix.

The spells that were single target, were all melee based spells. Enspells, Phalanx, Spikes, all things you make use of on the front lines, and not the back lines, showing the idea of meleeing being meant for the job, a use we never took.

Pre-75s, Rdm/Sch was so top notch, it was insane. Salvage was easier with it. Low man anything was easier with it. Post-75 days, Whm took over. Rdm was not up to snuff for curing such large amounts of HP in abyssea, had limited access to procs and for obvious reasons no DD. Since then, the transition has moved to Sch with it's great gear selection and constant ask to stun with strategems. Yes, Sch can help support and help cure and help enfeeble but really in those runs they have a set role with no deviation. That's where Rdm comes in. To facilitate those needs to help support the group. It's almost like the times when Rdm was very helpful for Kirin runs or Jailer pops or Sandworm fights or what have you. The very nature of Rdm is jack of all trades, master of none. If you ask them to make better over another job, they would be breaking that core aspect.

I have said many times on these forums, though possibly not this thread, I do not want a boost to our healing, we are as good as we should be, and we do not need a boost to our nuking, its perfect as it is, the 3rd part to it is melee, which we are constantly denied from both devs and players alike. Past that we need a boost to the amount of Enfeebling magic in the game, and their potency, to make them worth using more than just a small safety net. What I mean is, if Paralyze had a chance to stop TPs or something powerful, it might be better, more useful, but most enfeebles right now are hardly powerful, most are hardly worth casting at all, like Blind, which outside of special mobs has no use because Accuracy is never an issue for NMs, not outside of Abyssea at least.

Rdms, at a time, use to be the solo kings. I know, I was up there with them. I use to solo stuff on Rdm and farm pops or items to use later. It was fun. When they broke it, I was angry. But I found another way with support low man tanking. Rdm/nin was and still is pretty bad ass. But it doesn't get use today because there is no need for it anymore. There's really no need to solo anything on Rdm old school when you can just take a DD up to it and blow it up.

Part of the issue. RDM needs some DD aspects to it, the third part of the jack of all trades, if we could cast and melee at the same time that would solve the issue real well, we could melee, deal DMG, and still do some supporting, and it would fit with the idea of the job, but to cast while meleeing is a huge DPS drop, and to ignore out magic side outright makes it pointless to come RDM in the first place.

Rdm play aspect is always changing, just like all 22 of the other jobs. It's the evolution of the game and what the developers put into it. Yelling and screaming about how you don't like the job and want it the way YOU want it, isn't going to make them change anything. My analogy of the amusement park was just that. If you wanted into Disney land and told them you didnt like space mountain because it didnt have all the loops or falls you wanted, they would laugh and tell you to go somewhere else. But enough people like the ride to not warrant a change and so they dont touch it. This is no different.

I know a lot of RDMs, I know hardly any who say the job is fine as it is, who get to play it often without either being solo or having to make their own parties just to get an invite. As for me saying I don't like how the job is, tell me, if we don't like it and say nothing, how will things ever change? They wont, they have no chance of changing when people are silent, if we yell and scream we want changes and they do nothing, you know what, tried, failed, but at least I didn't sit in a corner complaining about those who spoke their minds on how the job was rotting away.

Do you realize that really 1% of the people playing the game post on these forums? And maybe 20% of those playing come to read this bu*$#&@t? Those numbers might have grown since the loss of players but really, there's not a ot of people complaining about Rdm.

Most people gave up on the job already, they saw the massive amount of horrible choices made for the job and how things never changed for it really, it always just got screwed, the SP2 was so heavily opposed by every single person, not a single person I have seen was in favor of it, at best, they had the wait and see attitude that maybe it wouldn't suck, but no one thought it was actually good. People did rise up, people did complain, and we got no where, but if your ignoring that fact, the fact people did speak out about it, then I have no idea what your expecting.