servers way more empty now? Still doing the linear gear climb?

[Blah]

Yea.... Sorry but I feel you guys are well still wearing rose colored glasses and are missing the obvious reason why the servers are empty. The fact is the population has BEEN low and steadly decreasing for the longest, that's why they had to merge in the 1st place, remember? By the time 14 came along the 1st time it was only around 2000~ 2500 per server, ok for getting some stuff done but considering that this is a party oriented time burner ( it still seems to me that they expect EVERYTHING to be done with a party), a lot of stuff just wasn't getting done so a lot of people simply left until it finally started being only around 1800 to 1500 when 14 came out again and when people left to play that well a mass exodus is basically the end result. People pop in shout for SoA and get nothing they figure well screw this I'M GONE. Now unlike most I like soloing my lowbie jobs while I wait and see what happens so it bothers me none that people are gone. But...well...since like I said b4 this game is a party oriented time burner it's is what made it so great is what is leading to it's own demise

[saevel]

I'm really waiting for someone to explain how going from level 10 gear to level 50 gear isn't "vertical progression".

Guys' there is no such thing as "horizontal progression", it's an oxymoron. You can't walk forward by walking to the side. What people really are talking about is minimum progression, aka side grades. Where you wait six months to get an item that is 2~3% better then the one you already have. Where new content might have 1~3 pieces of useful gear per job instead of replacing nearly everything. Voidwatch, Legion and Sea are prime examples of this content. Skirmish, Delve, Sky, Abyssea and Ground Kings (depending) are examples of vertical progression.

People aren't pissed that gear is being upgraded, it's always been upgraded and people actually get pissed when there is no carrot. People are pissed that the previous gear they spent years getting was obsoleted so fast that it left them behind. The people who are the most pissed are the ones who were in the ultra elite groups that claimed exclusive rights to be "winners", after all if everyone can get a trophy then trophy's are meaningless.

[Blah]

And that is why the veterans are probably leaving in mass exodus...well the few veterans that are left

[leorez]

I'm really waiting for someone to explain how going from level 10 gear to level 50 gear isn't "vertical progression".

Guys' there is no such thing as "horizontal progression", it's an oxymoron. You can't walk forward by walking to the side. What people really are talking about is minimum progression, aka side grades. Where you wait six months to get an item that is 2~3% better then the one you already have. Where new content might have 1~3 pieces of useful gear per job instead of replacing nearly everything. Voidwatch, Legion and Sea are prime examples of this content. Skirmish, Delve, Sky, Abyssea and Ground Kings (depending) are examples of vertical progression.

People aren't pissed that gear is being upgraded, it's always been upgraded and people actually get pissed when there is no carrot. People are pissed that the previous gear they spent years getting was obsoleted so fast that it left them behind. The people who are the most pissed are the ones who were in the ultra elite groups that claimed exclusive rights to be "winners", after all if everyone can get a trophy then trophy's are meaningless.

though its true i can never actually be "horizontal", its a way of saying things differently. If i get a piece that is situational or get a piece that is better suited for my build (like i need more acc vs attack) would you consider those vertical? It was that not every piece was exactly better than the last, but had different uses for different set ups. I could ignore certain pieces and not be gimped and not be able to participate in things because my damage or w/e is drastically lower.

And yes the giant obvious problem is how not only quickly they replaced just about everything, but how much of a jump it was, making you so much weaker than another player it made your output not worth having. Its the design of most new age games, and in particular FFXIV where if at 50 you dont have the higher "ilevel" sh*t you dragged everyone down pretty substantially. I hated it and left the game pretty quick because of it (among plenty of other reasons).

We went to 99, so yes lots of old stuff would be replaced, we all got that, but it should have went back to how 75 cap was with lots of viable gear in tons of different events, basically re-doing the 75 endgame design. Instead they pulled this "ilevel" crap too and basically raised the levels even more (why?..who the hell knows?). Poor design by a terrible new team who havent the slightest clue how this game worked before and what kept people around, its turned into a poor mans FFXIV testing ground run by a bunch of amateurs.

[Ravenmore]

The elites leaving wasn't the real problem it's the people that got shut out of content leaving that is the problem.

[predatory]

The elites leaving wasn't the real problem it's the people that got shut out of content leaving that is the problem.

That sounds just about why I'm leaving

[Zumi]

I like the ilvl system way more then side grades. Because with the big upgrade it actually feels like I am getting better gear and my character does noticeably more damage.

People aren't leaving because they don't like the gear system in the game. Its more like FFXI is really old 12 years almost. The graphics are pretty dated, there is new shiny FFXIV out now with HD graphics. One of the main contributor to FFXI's population loss is new games especially FFXIV. Personally I know I been playing FFXIV more then FFXI since there hasn't been much new added in FFXI for quite some time.

SE just said that 1.5 million people were playing FFXIV, and it uses the same ilvl system as they put in FFXI so its not the gearing system that is at fault here, its the fact the game is very old now.

[Demon6324236]

SE said 1.5M people were playing FFXIV, not that 1.5M people who play FFXI were playing FFXIV. Just because a lot of people are playing that game does not mean that the issue of this game is not the ilevel system. The fact is, ilevels suck as an idea for this game. This game has always had gear which lasted a long time, every update was not likely to bring gear so much better that your gear you got since last update was practically worthless by compare. On top of that, the power gap is to large, far to large, anyone without a boss weapon has a massively lower DPS, so much so that its insane by compare to the old idea of RME > All, a massive issue in the community since Abyssea till the start of SoA.

So far as just saying its a dated game, that's never stopped it before. The game has been old for quite some time, and not a single person I know of who has quit or has been talking about quitting has even once brought up its age. Everyone I know who has even talked about quitting brings up that the game is changing to much, they don't want to go get new gear every couple months and feel like they are starting from scratch. Maybe you and the people you know are different, but from what I have seen, your statements are completely wrong as to why people are leaving.

[Blah]

Erm... Man I don't think you have been paying attention. BEFORE they even started the the ilevel stuff and even before Abyssea people were leaving. Pay attention why don't you? The servers only had around 3000 to 2500 and steadily decreasing wait you know what? If you haven't been checking the population then this is useless to explain.

[Demon6324236]

The population has been slowly going down, yes, but in the last few months the population has fallen drastically, at a much faster speed than the norm. If it were falling like normal, there would be no need to make special notice of it, but its going much faster, which is why its actually being brought up as more of an issue, the acceleration is worrisome.