Summoner Suggestions

[SillyBoots]

These suggestions are intended to be of more universal value to the Summoner, that is to say these suggestions are without regard to subjob, level, gear and whether in group or solo play.

*Elemental Spirits*

Spirits should auto-target and attack an enemy like the DRG's Wyvern does and the assault command should not reset the spell cool down.

Elemental Spirits (not Light or Dark) should have 2 spell sets with independent timers, one for enfeebling magic and one for elemental magic.

Light Spirit needs 2 separate spell sets with independent timers. In healer mode this would be split into curing spells and then buffing magic and while the spirit is engaged it would be healing magic and then its combat spell list.

Light Spirit should get higher tiers of Regen.

Light Spirit should not engage an enemy, that is to say; leave healer mode, unless the Summoner uses Assault.

Dark Spirit's spell timer should always be halved.


*Summoning Magic*

Summoning magic should be uniterruptible similar to a Bard's song.

Both summon auto-attack and an Elemental Spirit's spell should provide summoning magic skill up opportunities.


*General*

Summon auto-attack needs an upgrade.

We need a job ability similar to Piannissimo that allows us to make our BP: Ward single target and reduces MP cost to 1/2 and reduces BP: Ward recast by half.

These are more quality of life issues that I've consistently felt the job could use regardless if I was in a group or solo, meleeing or not and throughout the levels.

[FaeQueenCory]

I was really surprised to see nothing about BP timer or any of the legit problems with smn...
Then I saw that you're only 58 (at the time of both these posts) so I then understood why you were saying this stuff when there just isn't any problem with it once you hit... 70ish.

In order of your list:

• Spirits: you mean those little baubles that you drain MP from every 5min in intense fights? (looking at you WKRs)
  Oh.... you mean that white little bauble that you let tag along with you when you're not doing anything so you can always have pro/shell5!

In a less trolly manner: Why are you using any spirit other than Light spirit and only when you're not doing anything???
Carbuncle is better than all of them... CARBUNCLE.
He's terrible!
And the devil!
Though having Light bauble poop out regen 4s or 5s the way it lets smn cheat with pro/shell5... that'd be really cool.
But not a pressing matter.
At all.
We have actual problems with the job to deal with first.

• Summoning Magic:
  Your skill isn't capped. Is it?
  Generally, when a magic skill is capped (or over capped as all SMNs shoot for) the interruption rate of casting of the spell will be very low.
  And, just speaking from personal experience, ever since they updated the casting time to be 5s (I think that's what it is now)... I think I've had a summoning only be interrupted once... and that was in Adoulin and a TP move.
  Cap your skill (and then overcap it with merits and gear) and you won't be experiencing what you are now at 58.

And again, an interesting idea... Avatar AA raising skill level....
Summoning Magic IS the worst of the magics to raise... (It's why I don't recommend abyburning smn.)
But.... while this would be a godsend.... (and it would encourage abyburned smns to raise their skill through combat rather than summon spamming)
"we have more pressing concerns at the moment" (BP timer and AA dmg)

• General:
  More wonderful suggestions.... for things that are enhancements and not fixes....
  
  EXCEPT: Auto-Attack dmg.
  I think it was Babakeke who called attention to the fact that a smn can out dmg the avatar at iLvs... in just AA.
  And... that's just sad.... but I'm not sure anything can be done about it... (though maybe augmenting the values of the +atk that Dashvatara/Convocaller sachets give may suffice... but Lord knows those values at present.)
  Though I am kinda curious about how you noticed this at 58... when I was 58... my Avatars were greatly out doing my AA dmg.

So... You've made many a nice suggestion... but only called attention to one thing that needs to be fixed: AA dmg.
At present, BP timer cap and AA dmg are the biggest things that need to be addressed with smn.
Spirits are ethers.
Light Spirit is for your Pro/Shell5.
Cap your skill to make your interrupts less.

[SillyBoots]

Thanks for the long write up Fae. Been playing FFXI for 7.5 years with multiple jobs capped etc etc but I didn't reference that so obviously it's understandable to judge my post based on this account's listed level. My suggestion list is from my experiences in exploring every aspect of the job during every possible avenue I could explore it in and these are the recurring gripes I had. My summoning magic is capped, and yes it is a pain to keep it capped, but I still find myself losing efficiency more than I'd like in solo/low man situations due to me having hate and getting interrupts and due to the length of the spell cast time this can become fairly significant.

I actually disagree with you on BP timer being too long. I find myself being most efficient when using the BPs then swapping in a spirit for a spell then swapping back to an avatar for BP. I also don't find myself using the most mana expensive BPs all that often. I'm not sure you could realistically increase your damage that much by being able to spam BPs. If you did you would limit yourself to just BP BP BP rest repeat and then you might as well just be a blm or sch etc. The point is I don't find myself in a situation where I feel like I wish I could just spam BPs that often.

[Mokeil]

I actually disagree with you on BP timer being too long. I find myself being most efficient when using the BPs then swapping in a spirit for a spell then swapping back to an avatar for BP. I also don't find myself using the most mana expensive BPs all that often. I'm not sure you could realistically increase your damage that much by being able to spam BPs. If you did you would limit yourself to just BP BP BP rest repeat and then you might as well just be a blm or sch etc. The point is I don't find myself in a situation where I feel like I wish I could just spam BPs that often.

Outside of the (supposedly eventually) incoming new SP ability, I don't think anyone seriously wants the ability to be able to "spam" Rages. Most folks I know - myself included - agree that adjusting the cap to -30 BP timer (or, conversely, 30 seconds between BPs) would most likely be sufficiently useful, without being overpowering. This would help us out not just offensively, but support-wise, as well. I have some thoughts on the matter more fully outlined here if you're interested.

But since you mentioned the increase to our damage... Assuming all things equal save for the timer recast... A Summoner with a 45 second BP Timer can do three Rages in a 90 second time frame (1st at 0 seconds, 2nd at 45s, and 3rd at 90s). A Summoner with a 30 second timer can, on the other hand, do 4 Rages in that same time (1st at 0s, 2nd at 30s, 3rd at 60s, 4th at 90s). While this may not look like much difference - 3 Rages versus 4 - it is, in fact, a 33% boost in offensive Rage output. Additionally, this boost will begin to approach a 50% boost in Rage output as the battle goes on longer, and the initial Rage at 0s begins to count for less...

And we'll still be put to shame by a modestly geared BLM who is just spamming low cost, high efficiency tier II spells, or a melee with their awesome auto-attacks and constant WSs. (And that would be OK, as we should theoretically be able to offer support and healing like none of those other classes can!)

Moving on to the subject of summoned elementals, you are definitely right in that these things need a complete make over. Their AI a joke, the time it takes them to get around to casting spells is horrendous, and their spell selection is lame. As Fae pointed out, they're little more than disposable batteries right now. Even before Siphon, they usually served best as a means of Emergency Aggro Deflector. Once any "free" avatar became possible, they lost even that use.

Having mentioned BLM, I think that it would be cool if the elementals got an AI make over to reflect the recent changes in Elemental Magic. I.E. they would cast constant, low level (tier II) spells for a steady output of damage, with the occasional bump up to the tier IV/V or Ancient Magic spells for spike damage. Things like Burn should be taken right out, or moved over to the Dark Elemental. It wouldn't be hard to tweak the spell recasts to be decent, but not stepping on BLM's toes.

The Light Elemental should get a makeover similar to the Automaton in Soulsoother mode. It has separate recasts for buffs, heals, -na spells, and debuffs. Keeping the Light Elemental to single target only things would also still give Carby and Leviathan plenty of use for group dynamics. Again, as with the nuking elementals, it should be possible to adjust the timers of things (mostly the Cure spells) to keep from being over powered, while still being useful. (Also, update the dang Regen spell, already, SE!)

[SillyBoots]

Just a real quick response to your BP @ 30 seconds vs. 45 and number of rages you can do, unless there is a proportional decrease to the cost of the BPs you're not really gaining anything. This is why I'd like to see our offensive ability increased via pet AA increase and smarter/better Spirits which are very mana efficient. My point is the BPs are so mana intensive I don't think throwing more mana out the window is the smart way of fixing the problem, there has to be a better solution.

[Mokeil]

Just a real quick response to your BP @ 30 seconds vs. 45 and number of rages you can do, unless there is a proportional decrease to the cost of the BPs you're not really gaining anything. This is why I'd like to see our offensive ability increased via pet AA increase and smarter/better Spirits which are very mana efficient. My point is the BPs are so mana intensive I don't think throwing more mana out the window is the smart way of fixing the problem, there has to be a better solution.

A decrease in the cost of our BPs wouldn't be needed. Everything seems mana intensive now, but the MP management game completely changes for SMN post level 75. A huge pile of gear becomes available to us. Right now, with gear available pre-Adoulin, my perpetuation "cost" is +5MP for all avatars, in all weather, on all days, in all areas, and without having to rely on the -2 perp cost from Favor. As in, I gain 5MP per tick (+100MP per minute), thanks to nothing but gear. (Also worth noting, as I have maxed my -perp out, the Elemental Spirits "cost" the same as an avatar for me).

Just to show I have room to grow to accommodate spending my MP faster: With the right augments on a Hagondes Coat I'd be able to add in an extra +2MP/tick. Add in an Oneiros Grip, and that would be another +1 while under 75% of my max MP. At a passive +160MP per minute gained, that means one of the two Rage BPs I'd be doing is practically free (6MP difference between our lvl 70 physical Rages, 22MP difference between the lvl 75 merited ones).

And that's in just gear alone! Post level 75 support job options also start to open up to us. Self cast-able Refresh from /RDM and Sublimation from /SCH essentially add in another +3MP per tick (60 for the minute). As an extra benefit, if you're /RDM you also get Convert! Not to mention Elemental Siphon just keeps getting better and better (capable of pulling in well over 500MP every 5 minutes).

Breaking all that down: Per minute I'd have +160MP from passive Auto-refresh, +60 from Refresh/Sublimation, and +100 from Elemental Siphon. Total: 320MP per minute gained from personal (i.e. things you can do by yourself with no outside help) restoration techniques. On the flip side, our most expensive Rages are the level 75 merited ones, clocking in at 182. Two of those a minute would be 364MP spent. Total net expenditure: 44 MP every minute. (OK, 64 MP per minute spent, until under 75% MP and the Oneiros grip kicked in...) This is a paltry amount compared to what we have to start with. Even a Galka could sustain that kind of cost for 20 minutes straight without sweating.

I know that's a bit of a rough approximation, given that I'm not counting things like Refresh casting costs, or avatar switching costs, or Sublimation down time... But I am also low-balling Siphon, and not counting Convert or Blood Boon procs, so I think it's a pretty close approximation.

Once Wards start getting factored in, it would start to get trickier, yes. But in a solo situation we're not likely to need many Wards, and in a party situation we can start to factor in outside buffs like refresh II, Mage's Ballad, and Evoker's Roll.

As things stand now, I have so many personal MP restoring options that I can't actually out spend my gains using just my SMN abilities while tied to a 45 second timer - even while factoring in the cost of Wards. Once I start counting in those external buffs? Well, then things just start to get a little silly. The ability to use more of my MP on my job's actual abilities - and not just cures from my sub job - would be very welcome.

Ah... sorry for the side-tracking. I'm rather passionate about the BP timer thing...

This is why I'd like to see our offensive ability increased via pet AA increase and smarter/better Spirits which are very mana efficient.

You are spot on with the need for these to be looked at. It's disgraceful that our avatars were ever allowed to hit the point where we could out damage them so easily with our own melee. Some gear revisions would also go a long way towards helping out with this - more Pet: Double Attack and Pet: Haste options... Having Pet: Attack affect auto-attack swings, and not just the Rage BPs... But overall, our avatar's auto-attacks are likely going to need to be rebuilt from the ground up.

Along with this, if the Spirits get rebuilt along the lines of something similar to what I said above (casting constant, low tier spells for continual magical damage), it would give us the ability to have solid DoT that is both physical AND magical in nature.

Don't let my passion for the BP timer thing fool you! I may not rank things like auto-attacks and Spirits as the highest priority for things that need to be fixed, but that doesn't mean that I think our other problems don't still need to be addressed. I think I'd actually be a little excited to see changes along these lines, and would welcome them gladly.

[Babekeke]

Just a real quick response to your BP @ 30 seconds vs. 45 and number of rages you can do, unless there is a proportional decrease to the cost of the BPs you're not really gaining anything. This is why I'd like to see our offensive ability increased via pet AA increase and smarter/better Spirits which are very mana efficient. My point is the BPs are so mana intensive I don't think throwing more mana out the window is the smart way of fixing the problem, there has to be a better solution.

Personally, I spam rage (generally merit abilities) every 45 seconds, and wards whenever they're down (generally Diamond Storm and Tidal Roar on WKRs, earthern armor occasionally too). I sub SCH all the time, utilising Aspir and Sublimation to supplement Elemental Siphon.

So far I've never had to rest on SMN in Adoulin. I'd welcome the challenge to lower BP timers to see if I'll finally run out of MP.

[Infidi]

SMN/NIN or gtfo. D: J/k J/k.... I usually use /RDM. But I'm lazy with MP management or hardwired to it, I guess, so I like the little bit of extra MP Refresh gives. Also, I guess, Convert if doing a 1hr? :P

[Archades]

/whm erase has saved me more times than i care to admit, i like sch but sublimation is only really benefit from having it (from my play experience). Oh yeah whm has divine seal, saved me too many times as well. Ihave never /rdm for stuff yet XD

does the occult accumen from the piece of equip work for jobs that dont have it? might make the time getting Myrkr worthwhile for when they make empy WS unlock-able.

oh ya when it comes to the spirits i only use fire and thunder during events if i need to get mp back up but want a pet out. they only have 3 spells they use. AM, tier V, and ele-debuff. so 2/3 chance for an offensive spell.

[Babekeke]

It's impossible for it to be not that much worse in terms of curing power and be way less enmity since enmity is based on amount cured for those. But yeah the real benefit from /whm is being able to haste random DDs and idk barspells?

I had always been under the impression that Cure 3 was much less enmity for Cure 4, but after reading through the enimty testing, it's only 5 and 6 that are different.

If you need to haste DDs, we have hastega. If you need to use a barspell, the SMN shouldn't be the one doing it. A WHM using barspell can get well over 200 resistance. We can barely get 100.

/whm erase has saved me more times than i care to admit, i like sch but sublimation is only really benefit from having it (from my play experience).

/SCH gets erase too^^

The real benefits from using /SCH lie in the dark arts. Impact. Drain (nice little bit of cheap damage). T1 nukes if you have a decent staff (the eft NM in rala skirmish is weak to magic. I was nuking thunder 1 for over 650 damage on SMN).

Also, being able to AOE buffs, or status removal is a godsend.