Thief Treasure Hunter

[Nebo]

Not really, Thief was very popular for Abyssea, Shin. It was since VW thief become useless, other than Bully for proc, then again BST was needed for Pet Procs yet no one wanted BST lol.

THF has been in this boat long before VW.

And Abyssea is Abyssea. That is not THF being on the stage, that is Abyssea allowing everyone to turn on God Mode with Atmas.

[OmnysValefor]

I'm truly sorry to say this, but until a DNC can crank out numbers like a WAR, it makes sense that the group looks for wars.

To turn a similar phrase on myself: Until PLD can hold hate like a monk or war, it makes sense that the group doesn't want me on the boss.

Even PLD, as much as I love it, I know when it's impractical to bring it, and I'm not inclined to bring it to such things. It is not the community that imposes this on each other.

Some of the best geared topend players I know have soft spots for jobs they love like nin, dnc, pld, rdm, blm, run, thf, drg (pld gets to supertank, and drg gets to go sometimes for Angon) and most desire that SE would bring some of those jobs into the spotlight, but until they do, players know they're impractical.

I built an Aegis and Ochain during mid-late Abyssea, I know all about building gearsets that I never got to really use.

As for DNC, PUP, NIN, and BLU's uses... All 4, properly understood, should excel at being an independent killer in new skirmish.

[Daemon]

THF has been in this boat long before VW.

And Abyssea is Abyssea. That is not THF being on the stage, that is Abyssea allowing everyone to turn on God Mode with Atmas.

Well I don't know about you but people always asked me to TH zone bosses, EMP trial NMs on top of +2's.

But when you say LONG, my main is RDM and well we've been under the bed tucked in a shoe box buried in the basement over the past several years too long to remember when we actually had any purpose.

[Demon6324236]

XD Like paladin . Supertanking doesn't count.

At least PLD has a use in WKs though. Nothing in Adoulin at all has called for a THF, I mean hell, when it came out they could not even be bothered to think of adding things for Steal, it took them like 2 months to even add things you could steal. Also, TH has had next to no effect on the content, the only things I think a THF would matter for is outside NMs, to help bead drops/gear drops, something no one does, and Airlixirs, which you get more of if you bring a proper DD of equal skill/gear. All in all, I have to say, PLD at least has something going for it, and its even required for an event, while THF sadly cant say the same.

[Nebo]

Well I don't know about you but people always asked me to TH zone bosses, EMP trial NMs on top of +2's.

But when you say LONG, my main is RDM and well we've been under the bed tucked in a shoe box buried in the basement over the past several years too long to remember when we actually had any purpose.

That should give you a better idea then, becuase THF has been in this boat LONG before RDM was useless.

[Daemon]

That should give you a better idea then, becuase THF has been in this boat LONG before RDM was useless.

Since when? Maybe you can enlighten me, Thief was always invited for exp groups back in the day. Sharkbite.

Always invited to Sky, HNM events, Abbysea, Salvage, Limbus, Dyna.. And whatever else I'm missing.

I don't even call VW a proper event because proc system made it easy. Then again who invited RDM over SCH and BLMs?

RDM became irrelevant in most events due to resist/completely resist enfeebling along with giving the majority of our unique spells to anyone subbing RDM =p.

And most mages subbed RDM making us worth less.

Other than Haste and heals as RDM, Thief was always included in events where TH, Feint, Collaberator, SATA needed to steal/direct hate.

In Abyssea THF could duo most NMs with a healer. I know I partied almost all my seals/+2s with 1 Thief as a BLM.

Definitely had one farming Emp trials.

It's different now because SoA requires more than what is being offered on the table for THF.

[FrankReynolds]

Since when? Maybe you can enlighten me, Thief was always invited for exp groups back in the day. Sharkbite.

That was like 8 years ago.

Always invited to Sky, HNM events,

"Come on red mage and invite my mule. He will tag it with TH. Afterwards drop him and get the bard back in".

Abbysea,

If all the procs are covered

Salvage,

"You get cells last"

Limbus,

I'll give you that one.

Dyna..

the last three years, only to solo, but even then, if you have 2 people, one should just sub thf.

on't even call VW a proper event because proc system made it easy. Then again who invited RDM over SCH and BLMs?

RDM became irrelevant in most events due to resist/completely resist enfeebling along with giving the majority of our unique spells to anyone subbing RDM =p.

And most mages subbed RDM making us worth less.

Which is why I quit playing the job :/

Other than Haste and heals as RDM, Thief was always included in events where TH, Feint, Collaberator, SATA needed to steal/direct hate.

I did a lot of stuff on thf. I shared parses with my LSs showing me in the top 3 DDs consistently at evens where they let me go thf. They still made me go RDM most of the time because it was that much more useful and you could usually use a few at an event. Luckily I liked that job, so it was a win/win.

In Abyssea THF could duo most NMs with a healer. I know I partied almost all my seals/+2s with 1 Thief as a BLM.

Definitely had one farming Emp trials.

I did most of my LS abyssea runs as BLM or BLU for procs. I did all my other stuff as NIN with my alt on WHM/THF. It worked well. I only went / brought a thief when all procs were covered and nobody minded because damage isn't an issue in abyssea.

It's different now because SoA requires more than what is being offered on the table for THF.

True story. They made the job all gimpy based on treasure hunter and then released an entire expansion that doesn't use treasure hunter.

[Nebo]

Since when? Maybe you can enlighten me, Thief was always invited for exp groups back in the day. Sharkbite.

The only time SATAWS on THF was a relevant source of damage was during leveling up when Viper Bite was a competitive WS. By the time THF gets Sharkbite, people had already moved on to SATAWS with 2 Handers, which did more damage.

Until they moved on to TP spam and abandoned SATA lines altogether because they did less damage.

Always invited to Sky, HNM events, Abbysea, Salvage, Limbus, Dyna.. And whatever else I'm missing.

Which is the issue we are talking about. They were not invited for any other purpose than Treasure Hunter (damage, utility or otherwise).

I don't even call VW a proper event because proc system made it easy. Then again who invited RDM over SCH and BLMs?

The same can be said of Abyssea, which was 100X easier than Voidwatch.

RDM became irrelevant in most events due to resist/completely resist enfeebling along with giving the majority of our unique spells to anyone subbing RDM =p.

RDM for a very very long period of the game was one of the most in damand jobs. This didn;t change until the level cap raise, which is relatively recent in the game's history

Other than Haste and heals as RDM, Thief was always included in events where TH, Feint, Collaberator, SATA needed to steal/direct hate.

You are stating a lot of utility in that sentence that Thief simply does not have. TH is the only reason people bring a THF to anything. TH is a weak passive trait and feint really isn't relevant because Accuracy is accounted for with support setups. A dd slot would not be wasted to bring a THF for feint...which is why you don;t see groups bringing them for it.

No one brings THF to SATA or manage hate or any of that.

In Abyssea THF could duo most NMs with a healer. I know I partied almost all my seals/+2s with 1 Thief as a BLM.

Almost any job +whm could duo anything in Abyssea. Besides which, Treasure Hunter is a secondary concern to getting your weakness triggers in order. If you have a choice between bringing BLM and TH for +2 farming for example...you bring the BLM, not the THF (or just have the BLM/THF).

It's different now because SoA requires more than what is being offered on the table for THF

Yeah, there really isn;t much of anything in SoA for the Thief job

[Daemon]

THF has been in this boat LONG before RDM was useless.

My point was THF was included in a variety of events than RDM. Since ToAu release RDM started on the path of becoming useless when SE implemented Mage Ballad for Bard. Evokers Roll for Corsair.

Resist / Completely resist was implement before cap was raised to 99. If i remember correctly this happened during 75 era. RDM was highly popular in a sense that we could enfeeble, Refresh and Phalanx Paladin Kiting HNM and step in to Kite giving fallen party members time to recover. Because SE added Resist and Completely resist, highly used spells such as Gravity, Bind, made the concept of kiting completely useless. Therefore RDM was unable to be useful and people started giving up on playing the job because other than being a secondary healer, RDM is not a primary DD that could hold hate and completely resist made it pointless for end game.

As for THF, yes I agree that the job is only used for Treasure hunter. Shark bite example was meant to be the example of how thief was popular 8 years ago, of course no one uses that now because this example was meant to take you back during the time 6 man groups were formed for exp. this was even before level sync was implemented.

At least throughout time THF was still included as a first priority to events that wanted rare items unlike RDM too many other jobs were invited that could replace us because RDM was never good at anything else other than a secondary healer, Refresh, Enfeebling.

As level cap rised, RDM became pointless when other jobs were allowed to carry most of our trademark spells such as Dispel, Gravity, Refresh, Phalanx.

Upon releasing Scholar, RDM was no longer invited for anything because Accession allowed the ability to share Enspells, Phalanx, Refresh. Also Convert encouraged jobs to sub RDM.

As for Thief duo in Abyssea, thief has the ability to be an evasion tanker by subbing Ninja for utsusemi and having 2 evasion Magian trial daggers with gear. (Which is why I said most people I partied with were THF)

Collaborator allowed THF to keep hate when tanking mobs. Or used in party to help mages when THF was invited for TH.

Feint was still used in Abyssea. Whether or not accuracy could be accounted for through support not every party brought the proper support which still made the ability still useful.

Maybe no one invited THF primarily for Feint but it was still used.

Anyways the main point of why I brought up this discussion is yes Thief is lacking the ability to be useful at Endgame. As the job deteriorated throughout the years, Now Treasure Hunter, which was the main reason THF was invited to all events, is being left out in SoA making Thief useless.

Also as I see the Devs are implementing all this iLvL gear, I'm hoping they haven't forgotten jobs such as THF.

As for Thief Knife example in my original post, this was meant to show the DEV Team how far behind THF is falling.

[Nebo]

My point was THF was included in a variety of events than RDM. Since ToAu release RDM started on the path of becoming useless when SE implemented Mage Ballad for Bard. Evokers Roll for Corsair.

RDM was one of the most sought after jobs in the ToAU era. I remember having a VERY tough time getting into PUG groups on THF in ToAU. If memory serves, that's when I leveled BRD and learned to meripo pull.

Shark bite example was meant to be the example of how thief was popular 8 years ago, of course no one uses that now because this example was meant to take you back during the time 6 man groups were formed for exp. this was even before level sync was implemented.

SATA Shark Bite was never popular is my point. SATA Shark Bite was inferior to...SATA Spinning Slash for example. No one invited Thieves for SATA lines in exp parties back then at those levels. They invited 2 Handed DD/THF that could SATAWS for more damage. It was very hard to get invites on THF for exp. at those levels.

As for Thief duo in Abyssea, thief has the ability to be an evasion tanker by subbing Ninja for utsusemi and having 2 evasion Magian trial daggers with gear. (Which is why I said most people I partied with were THF)

THF is not the only (or even the best job) that can duo tank things in Abyssea though. Evasion gear was not needed, nor was /nin (but was useful sometimes for yellow procs, not specifically shadows). Almost every DD can do what you just described with a WHM/THF and produce identical results - Better if you are a NIN needing KI procs, a MNK or WAR needing Blue Procs, a BLM needed yellow procs etc.

Treasure Hunter is third string in Abyssea

Collaborator allowed THF to keep hate when tanking mobs. Or used in party to help mages when THF was invited for TH.

It might be useful for helping mages if not for the short range...and long/shared cool downs. Low man tanking is about all I find Collaborator to be useful for...but SE doesn't really want THF to be tanking...I digress.

Feint was still used in Abyssea. Whether or not accuracy could be accounted for through support not every party brought the proper support which still made the ability still useful.

Eh, I want to say that Feint had zero use in abyssea. But an argument can be made for low skill rated weapons for procs. Even then though, it's not really worth bringing a THF for that purpose...even at low skill, with atmas and cruor buffs, feint is hardly something I would consider valuable.

Anyways the main point of why I brought up this discussion is yes Thief is lacking the ability to be useful at Endgame. As the job deteriorated throughout the years, Now Treasure Hunter, which was the main reason THF was invited to all events, is being left out in SoA making Thief useless.

I can agree with that. But hey, at least they separated the timers for steal/despoil (and added some useless things for us to despoil form new monsters)