Thief Treasure Hunter

[Daemon]

IDK, I think they got it. I don't think they're saying we shouldn't get a replacement for it, just that in its current state of affairs its quite worthless to even have on you.

Oh and that pretty much every THF Adapts the "IF IM DERE I SHUD TRESUR HUNTR OKY?" and uses that as an excuse to completely half ass the job to the point they're gimper than sin and try to justify it with "I'm only here to TH". So yah, I hate Thief's who say that kind of crap like it means they got a free ride to being gimp and useless outside of hitting the mob then AFK Netflix.

One of my LS buddies was helping me fight Kukulkan as a Thief, also the other friend was on MNK while the other was on DRK. Man I swear Its rare to see people play their job to the fullest. He did just that by running back and forth using collaborator and then directing enmity on to the other DD when one of them got petrified. I never saw anyone play Theif as skilled as him.

Then again these days we barely even have events that allow us to play together like that.

I love low man parties. Kinda tired of doing these 18 man events, or seeing how WR allows 150+. Sprites of others don't even show. You cannot even Skillchain / magic burst.

What happened to the days we did stuff with strategy? Yet VW and Abyssea pretty much made it simple with Proc system, temps, cruor buffs.

And WR leaves no room for skill and strategies.

Every event is either limited on time therefore no time to show skills and strategy, or the event has too many people to do anything organized.

[FrankReynolds]

IDK, I think they got it. I don't think they're saying we shouldn't get a replacement for it, just that in its current state of affairs its quite worthless to even have on you.

Oh and that pretty much every THF Adapts the "IF IM DERE I SHUD TRESUR HUNTR OKY?" and uses that as an excuse to completely half ass the job to the point they're gimper than sin and try to justify it with "I'm only here to TH". So yah, I hate Thief's who say that kind of crap like it means they got a free ride to being gimp and useless outside of hitting the mob then AFK Netflix.

Just because you're invited to get drops doesn't mean you should be stupid about it. "Max TH" is the truest form of a big fat placebo pill. As a THF Main, Anything past 6 is doing next to nothing. While the Law of Probability may mean that it doesn't do absolutely nothing, That law also means you might open your dryer and find your clothes already folded from tumbling... Which the odds of happening are so infinitely low that.. well, incidentally is probably the same odds that you'd of got the drop if your TH was just one more higher.

I really don't mean to be harsh about it but too many a Thief adapt the "Its okay I'm gimp" mindset and use Treasure hunter as a Justification. Theres a good Thief on FFXIAH who's parsed just 0.5% Behind an Oatix MNK on tojil runs and even above another simply from playing right and they TH'd the mobs just fine and likely contributing more to the success of the run than your average Pick up DD ever could.

here:

here: http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/36...hief/16/#reply

Thief can be good and TH Too, You just have to not suck, not be lazy, and not use TH as an excuse to fulltime a sh*t stain of a dagger.

There's another side to that coin. All the effort and awesome sauce in the world isn't going to change the fact that you are in the mage / tank party and you're not getting the cool buffs like everyone else. I've won lots of parses on thief simply because if the fight lasts more than ten seconds, the Warriors and Sams and Monks usually spend half of it in -PDT gear trying not to die, while I happily plug away and shed hate on them. But let's be honest. Most groups aren't giving the thief any buffs. That guy got lucky to be in a group / LS that gives two craps about what the thief is up to.

If I see a thief in a DD party, fully song/haste/rolled rocking TK the whole fight, yeah... he's a douche. But most of the time, that guy has no buffs and his damage is doing nothing to help the group either way.

Personally I'd like to remove TH from the game entirely. Or at least make it strictly passive so that people don't have to gear around it.

[OmnysValefor]

When you, or anyone, says "next to nothing", all you mean is "I don't want to say it does nothing because sometimes it is the difference between getting the drop and having to farm another popset".

When I, and most decent thieves say we fulltime TH gear, I mean that I switch for WSs. I don't WS in Armlets +2, for instance, even though they're the strongest TH piece.

Yeah so what, my modest damage-per-second isn't haste capped, it's pretty near what with 7% head, belt, 4-5% on bodies, and 6% on legs (24-25%, 25% is haste capped with Ionis, but who brings thf to much in adoulin?). I'm not using TH knife for anything but the first hit. My damage isn't suffering as much as you want people to think it is. The only crippling blow TH kits bring to thief's damage is TH knife, and for almost everything, you should offhand a real dagger after the first hit.

And of course, if I wanted to buy a Pya'ekue Belt, I could be haste-capped in all situations.

I'd love to see them make TH knife a ring or neck instead, just literally edit the item, but that's never been their style.

[FrankReynolds]

It's low enough.

And again, moving it to another slot besides ammo or a ki and removing the need for the other pieces is just like changing seats on the titanic.

[OmnysValefor]

Not remotely true, any other slot besides weapon doesn't contribute/cost as much damage as weapon slot, and not only because you lose TP when you swap.

Even on something like behemoth, one dagger hits for 170, the other dagger hits for 30. I love rajas ring, and eponas, but neither contribute/cost as much as the value of the offhand weapon.

[Karbuncle]

When you, or anyone, says "next to nothing", all you mean is "I don't want to say it does nothing because sometimes it is the difference between getting the drop and having to farm another popset".

Next to nothing is actually the closest literal interpretation of it. After about TH7 or so Its less than 1% on many drops, though it does change if the drop rate on said item is over a certain value since it is based on the Base drop rate to some degree... But yah, so low in fact even with thousands of recorded deaths some Lower TH values still show higher drop rates than higher TH values. FFXIDB Used to keep track of Treasure Hunter levels but it doesn't seem to anymore so I can't link you to the basic stuff, I think they took it down for a reason however. :|

There's a thread here on Official forums though with TH Information. Its quite handy.

There's no hidden meaning to "next to nothing", it means exactly what the phrase says. While it does in fact do something, The % Difference between the increased drop rate and the % Difference you'd gain from Killspeed weighs heavily in favor of Killspeed. I do mention clearly that In case of events where you're only killing say 1 Monsters or time is of no importance,(Behemoth, Outside Delve, Something like that) That it may favor use of the Knife.

Regardless of such, Coupled with the low values of TH past baseline, Upgrading TH Through normal hits gets incredibly low after 1-2 Upgrades, making the fulltime of TH Gear even more of a liability, as TH Receives a much larger upgrade chance on SATA, so if your goal was TH upgrading, You'd be better served making a THUpgrade SA and TA set that incorporate maximum damage with the use of TH hands/Feet... I have one, do you?

So, we say it does "Next to nothing" because all credible tests show it does next to nothing, fractions of a %, so low thousands of kills can with certainty determine a notable drop rate increase between TH8/TH9, Even the Official test required 2000 kills and still was within margin of error for variable drop rates so it could swing either way.

Yes, It does help, Whats being argued is it helps such a small fraction of a % Its entirely illogical to Fulltime TH Gear for just about any event, Especially with the mindset is used as a means or reason to remain as mediocre as possible on the job. Even if you're stuck in the Mage party, You can out DD the plethora of Subpar DD That make up this game right now, even if they get buffs, mostly because buffs don't fix stupid, and if you're real good and are lucky enough to be in a DD party for whatever event, you can perform at or around the level of the best DD.

The mediocre mindset does not apply to everyone, But it applies to enough THF's that its becoming common place and a plethora of gimps who couldn't damage their way out of a paper bag hurts this job way more than Treasure Hunter, especially when evidence of Thief's power is readily available.

[Spectreman]

I think TH 6 drops more stuff than TH 8.

Let the flame war begin.

[Stompa]

I'm not THF main job at all its just a utility-job for helping LS ppl get their stuff, so I for example didn't even know about the TH ticks being main hand / first hit only.

What I do know is I routinely hit th10 wearing TH0 gear, having landed TH7 on the opening hit. I'm not arguing with anyone or saying SE lied about about the TH gear spikes the %chance of further TH ticks, just saying you can use your regular melee/ws set and still build 10~ it happens to me all the time. If as I believe the TH ticks are percentile base chance, then haste gear gives you more hits including mainhand/first hits in shorter time, so I will stick with my haste set for THF and just use the TH macro at the start.
To be honest, rogue class, thief job, etc. were always about sleight of hand and deft touches, same as how on Earth a pickpocket will brush against you in the street, you wont see them and you wont feel anything except the merest nudge as they pass you, but when you get home your purse/wallet is gone. That always chimed for me with the TH gear that you swap in for one hit, it just seems more like the real world where truly pro thiefs will touch you just once briefly.

[OmnysValefor]

There are only a few other uses I can think of for thf, and none are about damage.

TA/SATA = But honestly, this isn't going to help tanks tank for more than few second more. At hate cap, all a TA might benefit a player is one more single swing at the tank.

Accomplice/Collaborator on a white mage. I can't tell you the number of times at WKR I've wished there was a thief present so he could join and Collab my whm on cooldown. His hate should dissipate enough that he'd never actually pull with collabs, and if he were to and were to die, it's better for the group if a dps died vs the tank or tank-healer.

It's not a great damage dealer, it just isn't. Solo it's even worse, because you have SA once every 3 minutes and no TA (unless you're dualboxing/have an npc, but neither is technically solo). Of course, in dynamis, you can proc and run around behind and SA, but that doesn't apply anywhere else really, since thf/dnc's red proc options are very few for aby.

There's no such thing as hate management anymore so the biggest utility thf had is almost useless.

Yeah, yeah, I'm not a THF main, but I am a PLD main, so I know what it's like when SE has carved us down to niche purposes. Please don't be offended.

[Nebo]

Honestly, this whole "Upgrade Thief's Knife" thing is pointless in the greater landscape. Adjusting Thief's knife to be the strongest dagger in the game (or any other combination of TH gear/KI upgrade) is still going to leave Thief in a useless spot.

The real issue with Thief is that Treasure Hunter is the only thing of value that the Thief job offers to a group.

That's a problem - Treasure Hunter is not particularly valuable...certainly not enough for it to be a "job role."

I don't believe SE intended it to be this way. They just designed the job very badly, took lots of good things away, and never adjusted THF to keep up with the times because they were mad at RMTs. (They fear the past)

Anything else that the Thief job can do, another job can do much better - without retarded positional restrictions and devoid of unreasonable timer bottlenecks.

Having said that, I agree that it is pretty ridiculous that TH is still tied to this stupid knife...but at this point...of all the things that really NEED to be fixed about THF....having the devs spend limited update resources on making it more convenient to get 0.01% more TH placebo effect is not one of them.

But most likely, meaningless things like separation of despoil/steal + some new mediocre (but not quite as horrid as Thief Knife) dagger or some such TH gear band aid will be all the "fixing" Thief gets.

TLDR: /Toss the useless dagger and don't look back. The only thing it has been relevant for in he past few years is to single wield while killing Kings. That time has passed. It is not worth the inventory it costs to carry around. Anyone that insists you use it is most likely uninformed about what raising TH past a certain point actually accomplishes, about the Thief job in general , or both.