To everyone that hates relic/mythic weapons, I like to know why

[lorzy]

No, I'd go camp the NM.

Speaking as one of those people who worked for years to get other people relics, I really enjoy my empyrean weapon. I won't be crying if next update relics come out on top of empyreans, in fact I think it would be cool if having a relic meant you also got access to the empyrean weapon skill on your relic. I don't hate the people I got nice gear for, but it's nice that I'm finally also able to obtain nice gear even though I don't have a great way to farm millions of gil.

i don't really understand your post, you seem to take both sides.

as someone who's helped with relics, wouldn't it be somewhat upsetting to see them put it aside? because that's your work, that you (i assume) got nothing out of, and doesn't get any use anymore. my argument, which was quoted in the OP, was that it's great being able to reasonably obtain nice gear, but i'd be fine if that stuff wasn't THE BEST. i also like your idea of relics having access to empyrean weaponskills.


aside from that, the reason i see for wanting relics and mythics, or even any new comparably time-consuming type of weapon, to remain on top is that once you've got all jobs 90 (which doesn't take long at all now), and all empyreans, what is there to do? you can make relics or mythics, but if they're clearly inferior, there would be no point.

[Hoshi]

I see things differently from you. When all my jobs are 90 and I have obtained every empyrean thing in the game I would play to help others in my linkshell obtain these things. It's fun to have nice stuff but it's more fun to be playing with friends... XI gives us a reason to have fun together but ultimately it's the people that make the game fun for me.

I'm not a fan of the relic quests because I find them quite tedious... there's a bit of nice storyline at the end of it but I'm quite burnt out on dynamis and there's literally nothing I need from it aside from currency. The mythic quests are a bit more interesting but the alexandrite supply limits the number of mythics completable and the mythic itsself is the most disappointing of the 3 weapon types we're discussing. Assuming I 'beat the game' and my friends needed nothing I would probably spend my time attempting to solo interesting NMs and goofing off on vent.

[Humie]

I dont think most people hate relics, there are ony a few types of people that get relics
- people who steal a LS bank and upgrade a relic
- people who make a LS with a unfair system claiming all the currency then break the ls
- people who have no crafts or other ways of making vast amounts of gill yet upgrade a relic in a few motnhs (gill buyers)
- people who put years into dynamis, crafting farming ect dedicating all there spare time to upgrading

Unfortunatly the first 3 types of people stick in peoples memories more and are more common than the dedicated relic holders

My relic took me 4-5 years to upgrade going to every dynamis run for 5 years and using my points for currency (as a ls member not a leader) then crafting while i was out of events. Yet people see a relic and presume there a idiot, thinking i wonder who they rolled over for that relic

[Septimus]

And here's where I go off on one of my long winded posts:

At the time Relic holders in order to just keep up with easily attained Stat+X weapons needed to kill in upwards of like 3,500 mobs or whatever initially with a killshot from a relatively underpowered weaponskill. With the only known reward, that once they are done with the trials, it would only be a few damage more than the next best alternative.
Empyreans existed, but no mention of the weaponskills were made just yet, and they seemed out of reach for just a cool looking weapon.

Later hey added weapons that were just drops off mobs that offered close to the same stats as the relics and let people use the exclusive weaponskill associated with it. Meanwhile Relic holders had to kill 4,500 more monsters in the same fashion as before, just to be within 1 base damage as said [free] weapons.

A little later the first Empyreans started to finally surface. As did their weaponskills...

Historically SE made the effort to make sure any relic holder had access to any/all weaponskills for that weapon. Empyreans had something that relics did not.

Relic holders already knew SE hosed relic holders in their weaponskills. They were typically pretty bad, getting blown out of the water in most cases by a weaponskill attained at level 60 (still are in some cases). The weaponskills that were just introduced at skill~300 were laughable at best(at the time). The first reports of the Empyrean weaponskills were startling and overwhelmingly powerful to say the least.

All the while SE kept assuring relic holders that "an update was coming" for relics.
If the update was killing 9,000 mobs...

So now it was more a matter of a broken promise in the face of "They DID have the resources to make good on that promise. But they decided not to."

it's less a matter of a "sense of entitlement", so much as it's SE promised something that never came. SE said they were going to enhance Relics BEFORE the level cap, and never did. Then made Empyreans when they could have fixed relics first.

While at the same time gave relic holders trials that would best be described as punishment.

Would that seem fair to you if you were a relic holder?

5) The "Just make an Empyrean" alternative. Sure. Let's help the guy with a relic get an Empyrean... Do you have any idea how low on the list of "People to help get an Empyrean" a relic holder would(should) be? "Hey my Mandau only does 3-4k Eviscerations, how 'bout y'all help me kill a bunch of Glavoids and THAT GOD DAMN FLEA FROM HELL WHO SHALL REMAIN NAMESLESS, how does that sound guys?"

Yeah.. exactly...

So yeah, after spending more money than any four people you know combined.
Going through linkshell politics for about two years, including whining, people stealing, ninja-lotting, whining, back-stabbing, leaving, coming back, whining, balancing zone variety, wiping, losing a glass, whining, people not passing and losing armor/coins, and whining...
Having to deal with knowing 25 or more people who are doing it for you, which is a lot of stress on your shoulders.
Running out of money and wondering how you're going to fund the next glass.
Being told "Yes we know they are under powered and we will fix them soon."
FOR TWO F'ING YEARS!!!

Then:
Having to kill 9,000 monsters with a weaponskill that's STILL underpowered.
While watching people get the Stat+x weapons stealing your mobs in massive alliances while you're trying to get a killshot. KNOWING thier weapons is probably better.

I can guarantee you, if I was a relic holder, every killshot would be like a reminder of how much I've been made a fool of. Every time that Weaponskill leaves a monster at 1% health... I could assure you, if I were a relic holder, I'd be murderous...

After all that.

You see some dude get a weapon that surpasses yours all the while having fun getting it, and rewarding everyone that helped HEAVILY with free +2 upgrade items in a matter of weeks.

Relic holders aren't mad at Empyrean holders. They're mad they weren't given any break, that they've been made a fool of. Dynamis is torture for most people, including people getting relics. It always delivered sub-par gear, and rarely at that. Getting and Empyrean is awesome fun. I've helped close to Eight people now get theirs. I know relic holders DO get angry when an Empyrean just throw salt on the wounds. I have yet to see an Empyrean owner, while in the face of a relic owner, not throw salt on the wounds.

That's all. They just want the promise made to be delivered.
And a little civility when they ask SE "Hey, what about that promise you made?"

Why has everyone ignored this? This is why people with Relic Weapons think their weapons should be better. Not because they are better than everyone else, but their upgrade trials are some sort of Sadomasochistic tango of endurance. Considering the huge amount of work that you have to do to upgrade a relic weapon, they should be better than they are.

I don't have a relic (although I technically did earn one that I passed to someone that I felt deserved it more), I can say that I honestly think that relic owners got shafted.

[Glamdring]

I don't hate relic or mythic, I'd actually like to have them for my jobs.

The problem is, the game has passed them by. Dynamis is getting tweaked, so maybe getting new relic will be reasonable and we can simply continue on the 75-90 Empyrean upgrade path. Mythic? Maybe they'll work on making that worthwhile to attempt in the future.

They were awesome when noone actually expected the game to ever pass 75... but it did. It seems the relic/mythic holders that are complaining want to require everyone to hold one themselves before they pass 75 on a job. Unfortunately, that really isn't a reasonable expectation, especially if you expect other players to be able to contribute to end-game content.

It's kind of funny, because it's a reverse complaint; relic/mythic holders did alot of work to upgrade their weapon to the best at level 75, and they can continue to be upgraded to be the best at level 90 (mostly, we know about Aegis, but the job that can use it is also currently in ruins with current game content). However, because players can upgrade a weapon to be adequate in a few weeks the emperyean weapon holders are somehow not working seems to be the allegation. So the relic/mythic holders want a free upgrade from stage 4 to stage 7 without working. Why?

The trials to further upgrade a relic/mythic to continue their domination of their job's weapon slot are really no harder than the WS weapon trials, you just have to put in a little time-which the relic peeps were just complaining was too easy. Face it, your relic/mythic was a time-sink to begin with. It was designed so that you would almost have to create your own LS of people full-timing dynamis runs solely for the shellholder's benefit on the relic weapon front (they could get armor, but that's about it); mythic weapons were even worse which is why so few botherred to attain them at all, but if you did try SE could collect alot of fees while you satisfied your "to-do" list.

Believe it or not, not every player wanted to be in a full-time end-game or HNMLS type group, I think the majority simply wanted to have fun, not trophies. I know I never did, if I wanted to work that hard I'd just get a 2nd full-time real-life job and enjoy real cash. When I eventually take all my jobs to 99 and decide on 1 I will almost exclusively play I probably will get a mythic and upgrade it all the way to stage 9 for the awesomeness (currently leaning towards Aymur), but in the meantime I'll stick with my Empyrean weaps as I level so that my group can depend on me to contribute to their efforts. If you want to be able to brag that you're the best because you put in all this effort for your awesome "fill in the blank" feel free, my /blist still has room; if you just want to show up and put up good play-relic/mythic or not-my /flist has room too...

[Rambus]

thanks for all the replays, kind of forgot bout the thread, no idea why it was moved here. I want to read more carfully what everyone has said before giving a better replay.

[Hayward]

To be completely honest, I do not hate Relic, Mythic, or Empyrean weapons. I EXTREMELY dislike the systems required to get them. To my mind, Each and every one of them invites corruption, collusion, patronage, and various other social maladies that has turned me away from going after any of the weapons. Let not even mention the hoops S-E requires us to jump through that practically REQUIRED us to put ourselves in the power of others whose trust is murkier than swamp water. The Empyrean system is probably the LEAST odious since the most you have to worry about is someone stealing your upgrade items or upgrading a weapon that requires Chloris Buds.

[Wenceslao]

The real problem is weapons like the relic bow and gun being way too good compared to every other weapon in the game

the bow and gun really need nerfing

Why should be nerfed?, How many ppls have u seen with that relics?, they are suppose to stand a challenge to players, so i think the reward worth the time and effort, btw idc on getting a Empyrean weapon as they really do not pose a challenge to a ppl, i've been working on my Gugnir relic for a long time and i'll be proud of getting one, no matter if it's overwhelmed by a new one, as i'll know the effort it took me to get it.

[Unctgtg]

Its already been confirmed they are beefing up relics/mythics to be better and on par with emp.

[Byrth]

We are aware that there currently exists a major difference between the strength of Empyrean weapons and that of Relic and Mythic weapons.

In regards to that balance issue, we are planning to make adjustments. We plan to create a higher level of balance by strengthening both Relic and Mythic weapons instead of simply weakening Empyrean weapons.

Along with that, we are also planning to make adjustments to both the time and cost required to create and strengthen Relic and Mythic weapons. Eventually, we would like to even out the differences in the amount of time required to create and strengthen these weapons.

Sounds like they're also making them substantially easier to make, or making Empyreans harder. Dynamis rework is probably the first step in making Relics easier to get. I bet it is accompanied by a straight reduction in requirements.
They said today that Mythics/Salvage/etc won't be in the next update, but will be later.