This thread AGAIN, please, fix WK.

[Daemon]

Go beat 5/5 Delve, and then beat Tojil, and then come talk to us about where the game stands.

Seriously man.

You only have so many party spots. 18 spreads awfully thin.

So you are saying its impossible to low man Delve and kill all bosses within the time limit.

You are under a false illusion like most players today. Party with JPs for long time and you will see the difference.

At the current state everyone thinks boss is too hard and think having more people with highest DPS will win. Of course you can win. Anyone can gang bang a fight and end up winning.

Focusing only on DPS jobs mainly without strategy is like hire 1 tank and 17 BLM casting Meteor. Yeah you will win, and win fast. But the risks add up to hit and miss.

The real challenge is doing it with less people fastest possible on a flow.

You may think because it might take longer to do strategy is not worth it but if the flow is steady, gimping damage for the sake of flow well makes up for it in the long run compare to hit and miss, fall down and die, mages flailing arms in the air running in circles, DD attacking gimp under weaken or double weakness status and so on.

[Demon6324236]

So you are saying its impossible to low man Delve and kill all bosses within the time limit.

You are under a false illusion like most players today. Party with JPs for long time and you will see the difference.

At the current state everyone thinks boss is too hard and think having more people with highest DPS will win. Of course you can win. Anyone can gang bang a fight and end up winning.

Focusing only on DPS jobs mainly without strategy is like hire 1 tank and 17 BLM casting Meteor. Yeah you will win, and win fast.

But the real challenge is doing it with less people fastest possible on a flow.

You may think because it might take longer to do strategy is not worth it but if the flow is steady, gimping damage for the sake of flow well makes up for it in the long run compare to hit and miss, fall down and die, mages flailing arms in the air running in circles, DD attacking gimp under unweaken and so on.

Without deflecting or avoiding, answer this question.

Have you, or have you not, participated in a successful Tojil run?

[Daemon]

Without deflecting or avoiding, answer this question.

Have you, or have you not, participated in a successful Tojil run?

Here we go again. Have you tried every strategy, party setup, all jobs to come to the conclusion that there is only one way to win? Stop avoiding that question then ill answer yours.

[OmnysValefor]

Without deflecting or avoiding, answer this question.

Have you, or have you not, participated in a successful Tojil run?

Here we go again.

I choked, laughing, on my soda when I read that.

[Demon6324236]

Here we go again.

Quite so, once again, a deflection of the question...

Have you tried every strategy, party setup, all jobs to come to the conclusion that there is only one way to win?

Have I? No, I have not, however, I have zerged the boss in the quickest way possible, and won with very little time remaining many times. To cut my kill speed in a run to half would be the same as doubling the time it took to finish the run. My best run I have ever had left us with 20 minutes remaining, which meant we took 25 minutes. 25 doubled is 50, the maximum time in zone is 45 minutes, as such, I would have failed on my best run I have ever been in for Tojil if my kill speed was halved, not to mention every person in the run was using a Delve weapon obtained from a Boss, Upu DRGs, Oat MNKs, and Senbaak DRKs. At the same time, to allow a PLD to tank, that is what would be needed. If you want to put in THFs you have to either get rid of buffers, one of your BRDs or CORs, or a DD out of the 3 you put in a party, which cuts your DD power down, especially when you expect them to focus on hate management. Since you want 2 THFs and a PLD, that cuts out a total of 3 of your primary DDs. Now since you are going to want Angon, at least 1 DD should be a DRG. So it looks to me like your expected party setup would be...

PLD+DRG+THF+BRD+COR+WHM
MNK+MNK+THF+BRD+COR+WHM
RDM+BRD+SCH+SCH+GEO+GEO

Now on top of all of these sacrifices you are saying I should then tell my DDs that they need to TP on normal mobs rather than the NM because we want the PLD to tank? I have not tried it, but I doubt I need to. I understand the game, the damage output, and my restrictions given via time and party limits.

To answer simply, no, I haven't tried every strategy.

Now, answer my question and stop dodging and deflecting every time its asked.

[OmnysValefor]

So you are saying its impossible to low man Delve and kill all bosses within the time limit.

Nope, lowman delves have happen. Comeatmebro octoboxes 5/5+Tojil. I'm not sure about Daku or bee.

The thing is, in no scenario does a tank keep up with the enmity the DDs need to generate in order to kill the bosses A) within the time limit B) before Tojil is chewing on a few Orison Bliauds.

You are under a false illusion like most players today. Party with JPs for long time and you will see the difference.

You're talking about how JP are superior, and yet you haven't ever cleared Delve, Tojil. It's like saying "You're not good at basketball because my friends are tall and lots of good basketball players are tall.". Doesn't make a lick of sense, does it?

At the current state everyone thinks boss is too hard and think having more people with highest DPS will win. Of course you can win. Anyone can gang bang a fight and end up winning.

No, see, there was a time when you couldn't just send your dd in and laugh. SE used to design encounters, and now they just give things a lot of hp and moves that you need to stun.

Damage dealers are entirely too tankable now,

Focusing only on DPS jobs mainly without strategy is like hire 1 tank and 17 BLM casting Meteor. Yeah you will win, and win fast. But the risks add up to hit and miss.

Why do you continue to assume that because we don't want special snowflakes, we have no strategy?

You may think because it might take longer to do strategy is not worth it but if the flow is steady, gimping damage for the sake of flow well makes up for it in the long run compare to hit and miss, fall down and die, mages flailing arms in the air running in circles, DD attacking gimp under unweaken and so on.

Okay, here's the thing about most serious NMs. They're either immune to stun, resistant to it, or they build a resistance too it. Tojil does this. As the fight goes on, the more moves that you stun, the more resistant he gets to it. Before the m.acc update, this was why a lot of ls's couldn't beat Tojil. The fight would go on a little too long and a key stun would get resisted and people would wipe.

Barring the building immunity to stun, the fact that you need to stun, and that scholars can only stun so often, you might be able to take tojil down by just using ws+sc damage. You'd probably have to bead a few things, but it might happen.

There is no way, absolutely, that you could do all 4 of the other bosses that way (matamata doesn't count).

And Morimar is the easiest zone.