This thread AGAIN, please, fix WK.

[OmnysValefor]

Now you're just trying to avoid the question. This thread derailed from WK a long time ago and you know that. I'm not sure how it did, but the last several pages have been about enmity because apparently, only your ls knows how this game is meant to work.

[Demon6324236]

Here we go again.

Quite so, once again, a deflection of the question...

Have you tried every strategy, party setup, all jobs to come to the conclusion that there is only one way to win?

Have I? No, I have not, however, I have zerged the boss in the quickest way possible, and won with very little time remaining many times. To cut my kill speed in a run to half would be the same as doubling the time it took to finish the run. My best run I have ever had left us with 20 minutes remaining, which meant we took 25 minutes. 25 doubled is 50, the maximum time in zone is 45 minutes, as such, I would have failed on my best run I have ever been in for Tojil if my kill speed was halved, not to mention every person in the run was using a Delve weapon obtained from a Boss, Upu DRGs, Oat MNKs, and Senbaak DRKs. At the same time, to allow a PLD to tank, that is what would be needed. If you want to put in THFs you have to either get rid of buffers, one of your BRDs or CORs, or a DD out of the 3 you put in a party, which cuts your DD power down, especially when you expect them to focus on hate management. Since you want 2 THFs and a PLD, that cuts out a total of 3 of your primary DDs. Now since you are going to want Angon, at least 1 DD should be a DRG. So it looks to me like your expected party setup would be...

PLD+DRG+THF+BRD+COR+WHM
MNK+MNK+THF+BRD+COR+WHM
RDM+BRD+SCH+SCH+GEO+GEO

Now on top of all of these sacrifices you are saying I should then tell my DDs that they need to TP on normal mobs rather than the NM because we want the PLD to tank? I have not tried it, but I doubt I need to. I understand the game, the damage output, and my restrictions given via time and party limits.

To answer simply, no, I haven't tried every strategy.

Now, answer my question and stop dodging and deflecting every time its asked.

[FrankReynolds]

I assumed we were talking about Wildskeeper Rieves. I mean that's why we went over 58 pages worth of comments.

And why people are complaining it takes over 5-10 hours to kill Yumcax and Hurkaan. And by following the original topic.

Or am I misunderstanding?

Your debates about enmity and wildskeeper rieves are two separate topics.

[Demon6324236]

Because at this point you are trying to put me in the spotlight with the intention of replying "Then you don't know jack about what you are talking about." Just to prove that in order to know how every boss you have to win first before you talk.

No, I am trying to get you to say you have not fought the NM, or won against the NM, and for that reason you can not talk as though your way would be anywhere near successful against it, or any content like it. If you want to argue with me that it works on level 75 content and easy stuff like WoE or Abyssea, then sure, I agree, its possible. If you want to tell me it works on SoA content which blows everything else away by far and is far harder to complete than those ever will be, is possible to beat with the strategies you speak of, no, you have no idea because you haven't done them, you speak from inexperience as though you know what you are talking about.

If you were paying attention we are not talking about Tojil right now. We were talking about Enmity, different jobs, strategy vs DPS only.

Yes, we were, and you see, in the majority of hard and difficult content, where you would assumingly need those first things more, is the exact place you are saying we use none. We use no strategy, we don't want different jobs, and we ignore enmity, and for the most part, ya know what, your right about the first two, why? Because simply put, as we have been trying to explain to you while you ignore us, you cant do it. It does not have to be about Tojil for Tojil and others at his level to be of relevance, simply put, they are the hardest, if your strategies do not work against him because of game design flaws, perhaps it means something.

[Demon6324236]

I assumed we were talking about Wildskeeper Rieves. I mean that's why we went over 58 pages worth of comments.

No, we were talking about WK Reives 30 pages ago, since then the talk has been spread to talking about your ignorance on other subjects like enmity, job selection, content design, and so on.

Or am I misunderstanding?

You are misunderstanding much more than this.

[OmnysValefor]

Jesus man, I have a sick devotion to Paladin.

Don't you think I'd be playing it ("playing", not supertanking) if I believed it were feasible?

I'm not the only one. Guess what, there's Burtgang 99's that stil lknow the job has two purposes right now.. Supertanking, and WKR.

[Daemon]

UHG, I assumed we were talking about Wikdskeeper Rieves. Tojil was just a thrown in example of how the condition is different than WR. My point was most players continue to follow the kill fast with highest DPS jobs while discriminating other jobs that make strategies work.

Because you guys talk about Yumcax and Hurkaan taking 5-10 hours is why I went on about having the right gear, strategy, jobs make boss fights like in WR differ in setup.

That's why I mentioned several replies ago how Scholar with High INT using Ebullence and Kaustra was an example of using skills that could make a difference yet I continue to see people gimp jobs or discriminate based on DPS and robotic setups such as 3 bards rotating for 6 songs.

And why I continued to share my view on Enmity, control, and how DDs should be raising TP off Normal monsters than mash WS engage 100% on boss til the end.

I assumed Tojil was an example thrown in to prove me wrong in my explaination of why you think I'm wrong and how you think all bosses today have the same condition when evidently I'm telling you all bosses have different conditions.

Delve is limited on time. I've yet to see anyone even try to do it low man. This is why there are not any discussions on how anyone can do it without 18 people.

That's why I took it with a grain of salt and continued on about my view on WR.

If you want to talk about Tojil and delve then conditions differ since time limit is the obstacle
But then everything I just spend pages explaining would become absolutely irrelevant and we would be further confuse our points and take us way off topic.

[Demon6324236]

If you want to say that's what people can do in WKs then sure, to an extent that's what people already do in WKs, doesn't make it go any faster because without a few PLDs around to take the NM, you can get wiped by a single high power TP move which goes without being blocked by the PLD.

I have seen Yumcax hit Burtgang Ochain PLDs for more than 3k DMG which 1 shots them, and unless you have multiple PLDs on the NM, a new PLD will be starting with next to no enmity, making it hard to get it from the DDs who have been WSing. Now if you have multiple PLDs on them at a time then one of three things happen which make it go very badly still.

A. Multiple PLDs feed TP to fast, cause a wipe.

B. Multiple PLDs stand on top of one another and all get wiped by the same move, which made putting more PLDs on it pointless anyways.

C. Multiple PLDs spread out around the NM and cause it to spin, which kills all surrounding DDs, or worse, the mages, SMNs, and CORs, by making the NM use conal attacks in their direction, while also leaving no chance for having DDs come in to WS either.

Which results in another issue, which is that if a DD runs in and WSs multiple times, they have a nice amount of hate, as soon as the PLD dies from a TP attack, the NM will come after the DD, at which point they will start taking a large amount of damage. At this point there is a high likelihood that the DD will be healed by the WHM, and possibly SMNs or other jobs in the party, if there is a party, which spreads the hate further. Eventually it will cause a lot of deaths, and potentially even a wipe.

Also Enmity sucks on these NMs from what I have seen because a single SMN leaving Garuda out and auto-attacking on Yumcax has caused a number of wipes in fights I have been in because the SMN takes hate somehow which causes Yumcax to come visit the SMNs, and subsequently slaughter them all. After that point our DD falls to near nothing, many of the mages are out of the fight, and more people die, resulting in a wipe.

All of this leads to the same thing we all said earlier too, you can not coordinate a hoard of people, which is one of the leading issues with WKs, as a single idiot, literally, a single idiot, can cause the entire group at a WK to fail instantly if they choose to. Because of how WKs work, there is no way to remove or kick these people, or stop the idiot who uses Twilight to get up 300 times for the next hour because he feels like it while causing the NM to camp on top of all of the dead bodies.

[Okipuit]

I am getting really sick of the WK rewards for your efforts. I only have 2 items from Hurkan and I keep getting the same ones over and over with a crap synth item as a chaser. It's not worth the exp loss or bayld to even try to get a decent drop at all.

Just to catch everyone up on the current situation, we have received a lot of feedback on this and we do have plans to address this as Producer Akihiko Matsui mentioned here:

• Treasures
  Currently, in addition to obtaining rewards directly from defeating a Naakual, it's possible to obtain an item of your choice after fulfilling certain requirements for the Celennia Memorial Library. However, we'll be adding yet another way to obtain Naakual items by fulfilling requirements in content that is to be added in the future.
  
  We'll also be adding geomancy and other magic scrolls, coupons you can use to exchange for Bayld, and other items that have a bit more value to the current material slot.

Also, we do plan on adding a system to encourage users who have completed Wildskeeper content to challenge Naakuals again.

• Plans to maintain participation
  Once you've managed to procure all of the rewards from Naakuals, there will no longer be a reason to fight Naakuals, and as such the battles for others who have yet to fight them will become difficult. With that said, we will be creating goals to accomplish for people who have already collected Naakual items, so they continue to challenge these foes.
  
  To do this, we'll be adding new equipment and making it possible to revamp your Naakual equipment. We'll also be revamping the level design when a new Naakual comes out.

We understand that this is a hot topic right now and we're eager to get you more details so rest assured we'll deliver you the latest as soon as we can.

[Demon6324236]

That is somewhat better, but still...

Currently, in addition to obtaining rewards directly from defeating a Naakual, it's possible to obtain an item of your choice after fulfilling certain requirements for the Celennia Memorial Library. However, we'll be adding yet another way to obtain Naakual items by fulfilling requirements in content that is to be added in the future.

Unless it makes it so that I do not have to fight Yumcax another 5+ times for my Hat... which I have already fought him more than 10 times for... I will be happy, same with my Boots from Hurkan... but this is still not the preferred adjustment we have all been asking for...

Also, thank you for replying after 60 pages.