This thread AGAIN, please, fix WK.

[OmnysValefor]

So you are saying its impossible to low man Delve and kill all bosses within the time limit.

Nope, lowman delves have happen. Comeatmebro octoboxes 5/5+Tojil. I'm not sure about Daku or bee.

The thing is, in no scenario does a tank keep up with the enmity the DDs need to generate in order to kill the bosses A) within the time limit B) before Tojil is chewing on a few Orison Bliauds.

You are under a false illusion like most players today. Party with JPs for long time and you will see the difference.

You're talking about how JP are superior, and yet you haven't ever cleared Delve, Tojil. It's like saying "You're not good at basketball because my friends are tall and lots of good basketball players are tall.". Doesn't make a lick of sense, does it?

At the current state everyone thinks boss is too hard and think having more people with highest DPS will win. Of course you can win. Anyone can gang bang a fight and end up winning.

No, see, there was a time when you couldn't just send your dd in and laugh. SE used to design encounters, and now they just give things a lot of hp and moves that you need to stun.

Damage dealers are entirely too tankable now,

Focusing only on DPS jobs mainly without strategy is like hire 1 tank and 17 BLM casting Meteor. Yeah you will win, and win fast. But the risks add up to hit and miss.

Why do you continue to assume that because we don't want special snowflakes, we have no strategy?

You may think because it might take longer to do strategy is not worth it but if the flow is steady, gimping damage for the sake of flow well makes up for it in the long run compare to hit and miss, fall down and die, mages flailing arms in the air running in circles, DD attacking gimp under unweaken and so on.

Okay, here's the thing about most serious NMs. They're either immune to stun, resistant to it, or they build a resistance too it. Tojil does this. As the fight goes on, the more moves that you stun, the more resistant he gets to it. Before the m.acc update, this was why a lot of ls's couldn't beat Tojil. The fight would go on a little too long and a key stun would get resisted and people would wipe.

Barring the building immunity to stun, the fact that you need to stun, and that scholars can only stun so often, you might be able to take tojil down by just using ws+sc damage. You'd probably have to bead a few things, but it might happen.

There is no way, absolutely, that you could do all 4 of the other bosses that way (matamata doesn't count).

And Morimar is the easiest zone.

[OmnysValefor]

You keep talking about we neanderthals and our lack of strategy and how I simply need to just come play with a group like yours to see the light except that I know the fight mechanics, I've been there. You don't, and you haven't.

[Daemon]

You keep talking about we neanderthals and our lack of strategy and how I simply need to just come play with a group like yours to see the light except that I know the fight mechanics, I've been there. You don't, and you haven't.

I'm sure you guys are bored now that the concern about WR has been answered. However since you question my experience. I've fought Tojil and yes I've yet to succeed in winning the fight. Although my LS is an NA Delve Linkshells. Many have succeeded however I have not been in game logging in playing as much as I've been too busy working over 80 hours a week doing technician work on computers during the day and DJing at night however.

That doesn't mean by now after playing 11 years and like most people I use to login and at some points throughout the years I did play more than 16 hours a day that should qualify enough knowledge, experience to know how the mechanics of a fight works.

Its not my fault that I joined a team that failed. Not because I didn't do my part but because when playing with half an LS with the other half of the members unknown, team work is not based on practice or knowledge. We spent most of the time having some members try to figure out how they should contribute to the fight.

We did almost beat Tojil, but we screwed up with mata in the start that lead to failure.

On top of that our RDM did not keep blind up on pieste which made the party messy and lack of proper team work and lack of proper communication and leadership.

It does not take higher education to know how to fight any boss regardless of the level in question. However what I argue is that why people assume complaining about failure is reasonable when the result of that failure could be due to improper skill, equipment, teamwork, leadership, strategy?

Further more when I see DEV Team implement a boss or event and give you gear and weapons as a reward, I see that its meant to be easy after all player obtain such gear from these bosses. Obviously the challenge is before obtaining such drops. This happens with all content and is the reason why people stop playing the event after all items are achieved. Your power will surpass the boss in question after getting all rewards.

Meaning try to fight the bosses when everyone is well geared and ready than base automatic judgement that the event sucks before making the full effort. If others are doing it, and people are killing these bosses then the task is not impossible. The task is time consuming because its not meant to be easy until everyone on the server get the rewards and go back and help others win.

Had my team practiced and knew how to work team work first we would have beaten Tojil.

Then again has I not been working over 80 hours a week and logged in and played as much as you guys I would probably be further advanced than you. Why? Because I am one of the most stubborn hardcore player you will ever meet. Even if I have to stay up 3 days in a row to advance. I've done it many times. And I know how to accomplish goals without wasting time.

Coruscanti? It was an impossible system that would take me pages upon pages as to why it was impossible. Although if I was extremely serious about than join 6-10 groups a day, I could have spent that time farming and bought cells long time before the event was killed.

I just know I'm a good enough player to be patient, have the drive and dedication beyond any player and know how to manage my time in getting things done not to complain about anything.

And just because I did not join a party and win Tojil yet doesn't mean you are more superior and know more than me. 11 years of experience should be enough to know what to look for in every fight. And I do have knowledge to study the fights, communicate with others, read and research strategies, practice and lead a succesful event.

But when doing an event with various people and often times random members. Not everyone had the proper skill, equipment, knowledge and listen well to instruction. And sometimes leadership is lacking.

This is why failure happens in many parties. Not because you should single me out as if I'm not skilled enough to win.

All bosses in game were meant to be beaten. My take though is that I try to figure out how it can be done with minimal people possible using any job and any skill.

You may think Stun is the only way. My thinking is what if we did not have stun. What if we tried a different odd setup. How can it be done with all jobs.

I don't stick to what works. I try to find different ways to accomplish something opposed to how others do it.

You never know unless you try other ways. Thinking only a certain way is the only way only keeps you limited in everything you do.

If you feel like bashing me for my way of thinking or grouping up to criticize and hate on me go ahead but I refuse to believe it is impossible to have different setups, different strategies using different jobs.

The way us Asians think especially in Korea. We try to figure out the impossible and make it possible. Even if we have to be determined and dedicated until the goal is accomplished.

This is how we enjoy every single game. The challenge doesn't end with only beating a boss. The challenge for us is how do we beat the boss with every job. And we try to do it with least amount of members in the group.

My JP LS leader even question why NA players thinks Quantity over Quality? Obviously more players mean less control, less organization.

If we can accomplish the impossible then the reward is the reaction from others.

My country beat diablo in 7 hours upon release.
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Dia...rea,15649.html
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/4210101118
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/5149005645

Don't underestimate us Koreans.

If I had the right team skilled and knows how to work as a team. I would have figured out the ins and outs of every detail on how to accomplish all boss fights. Our determination is beyond belief.

Even Korean motto is that while our time zone is 1 day ahead of NA, we also work 1 day harder from Mon-Sat every week.

Compare to 9-5 Mon-Fri.

Although law changed in 2004, adjustment integrated in our culture does not change with everyone. I grew up in Korea working 7 days a week for no salary 5 years. No vacations, and no fixed schedule, with no Holidays, working overtime many times per day. My reward was to be a successful DJ/Remixer in charge of a DJ Promo company that only 1 person out of 2 companies in all over Korea had that position. Sacrificing money for one of the most important jobs not everyone have an opportunity to do.

Point is, I set a goal and accomplished to most the impossible. Regardless of what sacrifice had to be made.

Every job I work 3 times harder than any employee. Regardless if I am not required to do more than the requirement of that job.

Determination, sacrifice, patience, knowledge, networking, leadership, all important skills that even in any game can help a person succeed.

Management taught me organization skills.

Time management course in college taught me how to get things done most effeciently and effectively.

http://www.forbes.com/2008/05/21/lab...countries.html

Know our culture then maybe you will understand me better.

[FrankReynolds]

Stuff.

Your country didn't beat diablo III. A few people did. Your country went to work, school, etc. just like everyone else in the world. Stop trying to take credit for other peoples achievements. Nationalism is another form of prejudice just like racism. Knock it off.

As for your other analogies and stories...

How would you like it if some kid who remixed a puff daddy song on his macbook in his moms basement once started telling you that getting rich off DJing is super easy and that you just need to suck less? Because that's how you sound. Telling people that they are the problem when you don't actually know.

[Daemon]

Your country didn't beat diablo III. A few people did. Your country went to work, school, etc. just like everyone else in the world. Stop trying to take credit for other peoples achievements. Nationalism is another form of prejudice just like racism. Knock it off.

As for your other analogies and stories...

How would you like it if some kid who remixed a puff daddy song on his macbook in his moms basement once started telling you that getting rich off DJing is super easy and that you just need to suck less? Because that's how you sound. Telling people that they are the problem when you don't actually know.

I wouldn't know. I don't listen to puff daddy music. I don't live in my moms basement. And I don't skim through people's comments and judge them for something they are not.

Before you make such a subtle judgement conclusion of what you think of a person you should make sure you know the facts. I never knew my father because he died before I was born. I haven't seen my mother in over 13 years and most of my childhood I've been through foster homes because my mother could not work and raise me on her own. So all my life I have working hard and raising myself to be independent putting myself through school and college.

So if you want to continue assuming you know about me. Enlighten me and continue to repeat these judgements that others have used over and over on others like a poor excuse played as broken records.

I said know our culture then maybe you would understand me better.

Obviously you rather judge people than get to know different cultures. And this is why many people don't want to stay and be around negative people like you.

I never took credit for anyone's achievements. The example of Diablo III was an example of how us Koreans are hardcore gamers.

People who knows me on Phoenix knows I'm a hardcore gamer.

DJing maybe super easy to those who only buy an iPod and press play. But I assure you its not easy being that real DJs take over $30,000 investing in personal gear and music. And 20 years of experience mixing shows a significant difference in performance compared to your "It's easy to DJ and you can get rich quick" assumption.

DJ life is one of the most poor lives to live. We invest most of our salary buying music. But you wouldn't know that because you automatically judge that every DJ has it easy like Afrojack and SMH.

You have no idea what you are talking about and its insulting. Go watch Danny Tenaglia and compare him with Afrojack and come back and make your assumption again.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=p09T0WRklHY

Til this day Mainstream instant fame DJs have ruined a beautiful art basing music on instant gratification and convenience than knowing what house music really is about.

Taking over house music and incorporating it into pop and then calling it house music.

Unless you've DJd long enough to know how the business really works then I could be open minded on your opinion.

At first I enjoyed our debates. But after reading that comment. I lost respect for you.

Then again I've already seen you make wrong assumptions of others in previous comments on this thread before.

[FrankReynolds]

I wouldn't know. I don't listen to puff daddy music. I don't live in my moms basement. And I don't skim through people's comments and judge them for something they are not.

I never said you did. Start over at the beginning and really read it before you respond.

Before you make such a subtle judgement conclusion of what you think of a person you should make sure you know the facts. I never knew my father because he died before I was born. I haven't seen my mother in over 13 years and most of my childhood I've been through foster homes because my mother could not work and raise me on her own. So all my life I have working hard and raising myself to be independent putting myself through school and college.

I don't care. See above.

So if you want to continue assuming you know about me. Enlighten me and continue to repeat these judgements that others have used over and over on others like a poor excuse played as broken records.

I "Judged you based on what you wrote on these forums. Unless you were lying about being a DJ and having done one Tojil, my analogy is spot on.

I said know our culture then maybe you would understand me better.

I don't care about learning your culture. I care about this game. I have no interest in learning foreign culture from a video game forum... or even discussing it really.

Obviously you rather judge people than get to know different cultures. And this is why many people don't want to stay and be around negative people like you.

Nope, you are the negative one. You keep trying to make this a racial issue when it is clearly about a video game. Please take your racial / cultural comparisons to the appropriate racist website of your choosing. It has no place here.

I never took credit for anyone's achievements. The example of Diablo III was an example of how us Koreans are hardcore gamers.

See how you said "us Koreans"? That wasn't you. It was some koreans. Probably koreans that you have never met, will never meet and know nothing about. So don't try and lump yourself in with them and stop trying to lump everyone who speaks English together in the same way, because newsflash... you speak English too.

People who knows me on Phoenix knows I'm a hardcore gamer.

...

DJing maybe super easy to those who only buy an iPod and press play. But I assure you its not easy being that real DJs take over $30,000 investing in personal gear and music. And 20 years of experience mixing shows a significant difference in performance compared to your "It's easy to DJ and you can get rich quick" assumption.

DJ life is one of the most poor lives to live. We invest most of our salary buying music. But you wouldn't know that because you automatically judge that every DJ has it easy like Afrojack and SMH.

You have no idea what you are talking about and its insulting. Go watch Danny Tenaglia and compare him with Afrojack and come back and make your assumption again.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=p09T0WRklHY

Til this day Mainstream instant fame DJs have ruined a beautiful art basing music on instant gratification and convenience than knowing what house music really is about.

Taking over house music and incorporating it into pop and then calling it house music.

Unless you've DJd long enough to know how the business really works then I could be open minded on your opinion.

At first I enjoyed our debates. But after reading that comment. I lost respect for you.

Then again I've already seen you make wrong assumptions of others in previous comments on this thread before.

First of all, you obviously didn't understand my post. I never said DJing was easy. I said that you wouldn't like it if someone said it was. Clearly you don't. That's how people who have heavy experience with this stuff feel when you comment like you know about it. You don't. When it comes to Tojil, WKR etc, you are the kid with the iPod.

Second of all... HI I'm a DJ too. I literally have thousands of vinyl records. I have a garage and a storage unit offsite full to the brim with equipment. I don't do it professionally anymore because i have a girlfriend who doesn't like her man being out all night, but I could if I wanted to because I am that good and I have friends who are doing quite well in the business. I did opening sets for hundreds of hip hop acts from Wu-tang to tupac to KRS-one and Run DMC back in my younger (Single) days. I can still get backstage at just about any venue I want to because I still piss off my neighbors mixing every night and I still mess around and cut sh&^* up with my friends who are in the industry at their shows. As a matter of fact, I'll be back stage at Rock the Bells this weekend with my friends.

[Daemon]

Because at this point you are trying to put me in the spotlight with the intention of replying "Then you don't know jack about what you are talking about." Just to prove that in order to know how every boss you have to win first before you talk.

If you were paying attention we are not talking about Tojil right now. We were talking about Enmity, different jobs, strategy vs DPS only.

[Demon6324236]

Because at this point you are trying to put me in the spotlight with the intention of replying "Then you don't know jack about what you are talking about." Just to prove that in order to know how every boss you have to win first before you talk.

No, I am trying to get you to say you have not fought the NM, or won against the NM, and for that reason you can not talk as though your way would be anywhere near successful against it, or any content like it. If you want to argue with me that it works on level 75 content and easy stuff like WoE or Abyssea, then sure, I agree, its possible. If you want to tell me it works on SoA content which blows everything else away by far and is far harder to complete than those ever will be, is possible to beat with the strategies you speak of, no, you have no idea because you haven't done them, you speak from inexperience as though you know what you are talking about.

If you were paying attention we are not talking about Tojil right now. We were talking about Enmity, different jobs, strategy vs DPS only.

Yes, we were, and you see, in the majority of hard and difficult content, where you would assumingly need those first things more, is the exact place you are saying we use none. We use no strategy, we don't want different jobs, and we ignore enmity, and for the most part, ya know what, your right about the first two, why? Because simply put, as we have been trying to explain to you while you ignore us, you cant do it. It does not have to be about Tojil for Tojil and others at his level to be of relevance, simply put, they are the hardest, if your strategies do not work against him because of game design flaws, perhaps it means something.

[OmnysValefor]

We are talking about enmity in content that matters. Delve is the only content that matters where things live long enough to build any enmity on.

[Daemon]

We are talking about enmity in content that matters. Delve is the only content that matters where things live long enough to build any enmity on.

I assumed we were talking about Wildskeeper Rieves. I mean that's why we went over 58 pages worth of comments.

And why people are complaining it takes over 5-10 hours to kill Yumcax and Hurkaan. And by following the original topic.

Or am I misunderstanding?