This thread AGAIN, please, fix WK.

[Demon6324236]

The thing is, Wilds Keeper Rieves I can tell DEVs made it easy, but made these fights longer because they are wanting several players on the server to participate and not just a certain few camp all day or spend massive amounts of time getting a group of friends to walk over only to find that the boss died before or as they approached it.

Because this event does not limit you to 18 man party, it only makes sense to give the boss massive of amounts of HP so the boss won't die too fast.

For those who arrive early, the truth is you are helping the entire server by holding the boss for everyone else to have an equal chance and an equal opportunity to participate giving everyone time to show up and help. Also allowing anyone to play any job they want.

Its because this event welcomes more than 18 people, you don't have to sit down and specifically invite certain jobs, nor leave out people whose jobs you don't need.

And this is how I see WR right now.

This isn't true though, WKs are not easy to take down without specific jobs, and they take forever unlike you have large & wide participation from the server. If I go on WAR, I am worthless, I can kill adds, but if I get on the WKNM itself I will feed it TP, it will spam special attacks, and the PLD holding it will be killed, as a result, I will have triggered a wipe. That's not even counting the fact that the DT on the NMs makes my DMG less than that of a COR spamming Quick Draw if low enough, and that the NM will rape my WAR in 5 seconds of me having engaged it because of how overpowering they are. Giving the NMs such high stats is fine for the first 2 weeks, when everyone is doing it, because everyone is doing it, but as soon as participation drops a little, the fight goes from easily winnable to completely impossible. What once had 100~200 people attending each fight now has 10~20 people attending, and even when you win, most are 3~5 hours long with at most 50~60 people at best.

Which solves the issue many others were complaining. I can't find groups because people only invite WHM, BRDs, Dark knights, Sach paladin etc.

It only solves the problem in the fact you can not exclude people via choice, rather, they can come on those jobs and be just as worthless. I can come on a job like NIN and I will be no help at all, I can not effectively kill adds, I can not enfeeble worth a damn, and I can not truly help out in the battle. At the same time, I can come NIN.

Also, not being able to find groups is worse. I cant find a Delve group who will take me on RDM as a DD very often, which sucks for me, but I can find a Delve group that will take me on WAR. On the other hand, no matter what job I go on, I cant find a group of 50 people willing to fight a WK with me, which is a much larger issue.

As for horrible drop rate? Well this solves the issue of killing the event off too fast, giving the entire community power to speed through content quickly, and "I got my item, I refuse to play again nor go back and help others."

Your right, except your completely wrong. It solves nothing, it makes it worse. As I explained before, if you make drops that horrible, no one does it again, no one will go help friends with it. I would help with Akvan, low chance of my friend getting the item, but takes no time. I would never help a friend with Yumcax. Making an event like this is 10 times worse than 'I got what I want and wont go back' because at least normally, you only need 3~18 people to do something. If I cant find a friend who needs Salvage gear, I can go find some others who do, and we can do it with 3 people. Not, if I want to do Yumcax, and only 20 people on my server still need items from it, I can go take down Yumcax, he will smash us, even if we could put up a proper fight, your looking at a 20 hour uphill battle against a NM for what would likely be a log or pebble.

RMT can't get together 18 people and obtain items that help them farm Gil faster.

So now were going to play the 'it hurts RMTs, even if it hurts real players worse' thing...

[Daemon]

This isn't true though, WKs are not easy to take down without specific jobs, and they take forever unlike you have large & wide participation from the server. If I go on WAR, I am worthless, I can kill adds, but if I get on the WKNM itself I will feed it TP, it will spam special attacks, and the PLD holding it will be killed, as a result, I will have triggered a wipe. That's not even counting the fact that the DT on the NMs makes my DMG less than that of a COR spamming Quick Draw if low enough, and that the NM will rape my WAR in 5 seconds of me having engaged it because of how overpowering they are. Giving the NMs such high stats is fine for the first 2 weeks, when everyone is doing it, because everyone is doing it, but as soon as participation drops a little, the fight goes from easily winnable to completely impossible. What once had 100~200 people attending each fight now has 10~20 people attending, and even when you win, most are 3~5 hours long with at most 50~60 people at best.



It only solves the problem in the fact you can not exclude people via choice, rather, they can come on those jobs and be just as worthless. I can come on a job like NIN and I will be no help at all, I can not effectively kill adds, I can not enfeeble worth a damn, and I can not truly help out in the battle. At the same time, I can come NIN.

Also, not being able to find groups is worse. I cant find a Delve group who will take me on RDM as a DD very often, which sucks for me, but I can find a Delve group that will take me on WAR. On the other hand, no matter what job I go on, I cant find a group of 50 people willing to fight a WK with me, which is a much larger issue.



Your right, except your completely wrong. It solves nothing, it makes it worse. As I explained before, if you make drops that horrible, no one does it again, no one will go help friends with it. I would help with Akvan, low chance of my friend getting the item, but takes no time. I would never help a friend with Yumcax. Making an event like this is 10 times worse than 'I got what I want and wont go back' because at least normally, you only need 3~18 people to do something. If I cant find a friend who needs Salvage gear, I can go find some others who do, and we can do it with 3 people. Not, if I want to do Yumcax, and only 20 people on my server still need items from it, I can go take down Yumcax, he will smash us, even if we could put up a proper fight, your looking at a 20 hour uphill battle against a NM for what would likely be a log or pebble.



So now were going to play the 'it hurts RMTs, even if it hurts real players worse' thing...

So what do you propose is better? So far you only go against everything I say and never address the positives I've stated.

Would it be best to make WR the same as VW? Spam kill the same boss 50 times a day?

And what about 1 pop once a week real time? Are you willing to camp or ask people to camp it for you until it pops?

How about item distribution? Would you like to decide out of 50+ people who gets to lot the drops if the rare items even drop to begin with? If alliance is only strict to 18 people, who do you choose gets to lot and who gets left out?

Is it competition best to fight over claim and items?

Would it be best to leave out every job except the ones that matter to alliance leaders?

Would it best to have the proc system again?

Enlighten me on your idea of what you think is the best solution for everybody on the entire server and not just the group of interest.

People complain about elitism. I want to hear your solution that avoids that.

[Daemon]

Giving the NMs such high stats is fine for the first 2 weeks, when everyone is doing it, because everyone is doing it, but as soon as participation drops a little, the fight goes from easily winnable to completely impossible.

You just repeated what I stated earlier but from a different angle of the glass.

When people get what they want, people will stop playing the event making it harder for others to get a group together.

It only solves the problem in the fact you can not exclude people via choice, rather, they can come on those jobs and be just as worthless. I can come on a job like NIN and I will be no help at all, I can not effectively kill adds, I can not enfeeble worth a damn, and I can not truly help out in the battle. At the same time, I can come NIN.

No but you could tank adds, raise TP off adds and WS off boss. Unless you think its a great idea just to attack boss the entire time and make it TP faster.

Also, not being able to find groups is worse. I cant find a Delve group who will take me on RDM as a DD very often, which sucks for me, but I can find a Delve group that will take me on WAR. On the other hand, no matter what job I go on, I cant find a group of 50 people willing to fight a WK with me, which is a much larger issue.

Because you expect WR to be the same as Delve. When Delve is built to be based on time limit of the event.

if you make drops that horrible, no one does it again, no one will go help friends with it. I would help with Akvan, low chance of my friend getting the item, but takes no time. I would never help a friend with Yumcax. Making an event like this is 10 times worse than 'I got what I want and wont go back' because at least normally, you only need 3~18 people to do something. If I cant find a friend who needs Salvage gear, I can go find some others who do, and we can do it with 3 people. Not, if I want to do Yumcax, and only 20 people on my server still need items from it, I can go take down Yumcax, he will smash us, even if we could put up a proper fight, your looking at a 20 hour uphill battle against a NM for what would likely be a log or pebble.

You are comparing these events as if the power of these items are all the same.

I look at WR items as if they are REM. Not salvage, VW, and any other common event.

Instead of giving you endless quests, missions, daily limits, they give you a boss.

DJ I know you are endgame, very skilled and not everyone plays as good as you. But the fault isn't only the event the DEVs put out. It's the fault of speed leveling to 99 without learning real teamwork and strategy only for people to show up and only know how to do what they've done in Abyssea throughout the entire leveling process, engage, Zerg, WS, kill.

I know you are better than that and everything does lie within the skill of the people you are playing with.

You can't blame the DEVs for this. It's the people's job to learn how to lead, organize, and work as a team.

The problem I see with NA community is there's too many "I cants, I won't, I refuse, I'm lazy."

Unorganized and frustrated because people don't listen to each other, pay attention, take the initiative to step up and work out a good strategy and open their minds to trying something else than what people only know that works, unless doing events that are setup with robotic repeat mechanics like VW and Abyssea.

And because people haven't played as long as you or play as good as you, or have the same gear and skills, experience, you are here complaining over an event that you have a hard time succeeding to get what you want.

When the fault isn't the event by itself because when a good group of skilled players get together, these bosses go down in 2 hours or less depending on the manpower available.

And because you don't have any control to make these events work perfect to your desire, this is why you are angry pissed off and ready to rant.

[Demon6324236]

So what do you propose is better? So far you only go against everything I say and never address the positives I've stated.

Because I have no problem with some of the positives, other things you try to make sound like they are positives are not.

Would it be best to make WR the same as VW? Spam kill the same boss 50 times a day?

No, simply make it an event which does not require 50~100 people to win. If people kill it easy the first week then awesome, but at least it will have longevity without being an annoying pain in the ass. You act, or rather, you and SE act, like the only way to make an event last more than 10 minutes is to either make the drops work stupidly. With VW it was super low drops but easy to spam, with WKs its higher drops but takes hours upon hours to do. These are stupid systems. If you want an event to have longevity you need to make the event fun, entertaining, difficult, winnable, fair, and rewarding.

VW was fun, entertaining, and winnable. It was not fair, rewarding, or difficult. Most NMs introduced through VW had stupidly over powered attacks like Harpies, or Naraka, even worse, Gullu, had they been properly balanced, it would be fair, rewards needed changed to be at higher rates, and temps could have been simply removed as procs alone should have been enough to make it strategic to bring some jobs over others, but it should never have been required to proc or die.

WKs are difficult, winnable, and mostly rewarding. Tweeks that need to be made to make it a good event are changing the reward system so you always get something of value, be it a boss drop or not, something of value should be gotten so your time was not wasted. To make it fair, lets remove giant AoE doom from Yumcax, make the adds repop a little slower so there is more a point to killing them, and remove party/alliance based hate. To make it fun, simply allow people to actually get evaluations on any job, fix that, because some jobs like PLD which are required for this, get barely anything for coming in terms of Bayld.

These changes would fix these events and allow them to meet my criteria for a good event which would last a while. People come back to something fun and rewarding when the rewards can continue, if the only thing of value wasn't the R/EX drops, it would be better in many ways, but that's not the case. I do not mean load everyone up with the same rare craft material either. Thokcha Ingots are at 2k, they were once at something like 70k+, but Skirmish spams them at you like no tomorrow, so its worth near nothing now. Add a verity of good items like that which are spread out, and can keep some value, and things will be fine. People will come back for more.

And what about 1 pop once a week real time? Are you willing to camp or ask people to camp it for you until it pops?

This was a flawed game mechanic since the time it was thought of, and should never return. But saying that at least its not like that, is like me saying that Road to Hell isn't as bad as Big Rigs, just because the second worst thing I have ever heard of isn't the worst thing, doesn't mean its magically decent in any way, it just means I have seen worse. Much like what you are talking about. Old style HNMs, those were horrible, but WKs, are horrible too, just not as much so.

How about item distribution? Would you like to decide out of 50+ people who gets to lot the drops if the rare items even drop to begin with? If alliance is only strict to 18 people, who do you choose gets to lot and who gets left out?

No, I like how drops work in VW & WKs to an extent. Personally my favorite item system comes from Skirmish. Items drop to the pool and everyone gets their own items, if you are unlucky and can not get it from the pool you can obtain items, in this case, wings, to trade in for the drop of your choice. In the end, you always get what you want, but you can get it either way, and everyone gets something, no one is screwed.

Would it be best to leave out every job except the ones that matter to alliance leaders?

It would be best to make every job have a use in content, but they hardly every do job fixes which are desperately needed to begin with.

Would it best to have the proc system again?

At least that made every job relevant. I do not want it to be forced, and I do not want it to be wide spread & temp rewarding, but in all honesty procs were never a bad thing to me. The problem is with procs in VW they were required, and in Aby they were drop enhancing, so we never used procs for procs really, we used procs for Fanatics because we would get ass raped without it, and for enhanced drop rates. If they were procs only for the sake of giving a mob amnesia or silence when it is otherwise impossible/near impossible, yes, I would like them back, so long as they are done well, not every WS being a possible proc, or every spell, or every JA.

Enlighten me on your idea of what you think is the best solution for everybody on the entire server and not just the group of interest.

Making an event possible with few or no other people if you are good enough, while also making it realistic for people to be able to do this. Stupid restrictions on things like Salvage, Assaults, or other things of the sort are only holding players back from doing things they want. At the same time, needing an alliance of people to do things like Plasm Farm(I know super people can do it with 6, but those who need it most, cant) is foolish, there should be a way to farm Plasm without any form of NMs in the area with you. A fracture in Cirdas Caverns itself perhaps with no NMs, only a bunch of smaller mobs, their area bonus could be random between the other areas, which is currently Ice Spikes, Attack, and EVA. Make the mobs drop the same amount of Plasm, make them a bit weaker, and everyone could do it. Make WKs weaker so less people are capable of fighting them still, since popularity dies fast on new events it also means that the armies required to take down something like a WK will also die down fast, and leave the content nearly unbeatable as a result.

People complain about elitism. I want to hear your solution that avoids that.

There is no way to change people, or those who control the majority of groups. You see people complain all the time about people shouting for Oat MNKs now just like RME MNKs would have been the choice before. You can not avoid this, no matter what you do, and it will never change. The only way you can try to help others in your position get away from this kind of thing is by making more open minded groups yourself, who will take anyone. The problem is, most wont do it, and even those who do, often end up resorting to the exact thing they are against. I know a few MNKs who are Rigor MNKs and want Oats, all shouts for MNKs on our server for Tojil are Oat MNKs only, so what do the MNKs I know do? They either get in via a friend like me, or they make their own, but when they make their own, I have noticed, they ask for only Oat MNKs too. So really, only the people effected by 'elitism' can help those who are effected by it, by being open minded in the making of their own groups.

Nothing SE does will change this unless they put everyone else on even ground, in every possible way. If they gave out Oats to every MNK tomorrow, it would be only Otronif MNKs, if everyone had Otronif, it would be only Otronif Oat MNKs with specific merits, everyone had that, something else would be found to become a requirement. It always happens, and no one besides those complaining can change it, because nothing SE does system wise will change the way the community itself truly thinks and acts.

[Demon6324236]

When people get what they want, people will stop playing the event making it harder for others to get a group together.

The exact reason why WKs need to be weakened, and shortened. I would be much more willing to help a friend with something that takes 5 minutes rather than 5 hours. That is obvious. All making the battle take so long like WKs do does, is make no one ever want to return no matter what.

No but you could tank adds, raise TP off adds and WS off boss. Unless you think its a great idea just to attack boss the entire time and make it TP faster.

No, but the point is, I can come a job like NIN which is no help, and I will be no help, or I can come a job which is helpful, and help. I wouldn't come as a DD to a WK for that very reason, never have, never will, I stick to RDM and healing PLDs which helps the overall battle itself progress because the tank isn't dead. That's a job that helps a lot, and its effective for Bayld thankfully.

Because you expect WR to be the same as Delve. When Delve is built to be based on time limit of the event.

You missed the point of everything I said there. If I want to join a Delve shout I might not get in on RDM like I want, but I can get in. If I want to join a WK and I cant gather enough people to do the WK, I cant do it no matter what jobs I have, how well geared, or how badly I want to do it.

You are comparing these events as if the power of these items are all the same.

I look at WR items as if they are REM. Not salvage, VW, and any other common event.

Instead of giving you endless quests, missions, daily limits, they give you a boss.

I do not compare them as though they are the same exact power as other items, I know they are stronger than others otherwise my want to have them would be non-existent as it almost is anyways. They are not RME. The point of everything I said right there is that the battles take so many people and so long to kill that unlike an event like VW, where you could ask friends to help and they might do it, WKs are unreasonable to ask for help with. You pointed out if everyone got their items, no one would help, but my point is, if I have my items or not, WKs are stupid time taking, I wont help either fkin way, if they were shorter, that might change, but its not, and apparently, you don't think they should be different.

But the fault isn't only the event the DEVs put out. It's the fault of speed leveling to 99 without learning real teamwork and strategy only for people to show up and only know how to do what they've done in Abyssea throughout the entire leveling process, engage, Zerg, WS, kill.

This has nothing to do with WKs, at all. No matter how I level, or you level, or the guy who just started yesterday levels, nothing in leveling prepares you for a large NM which you are fighting with 50+ other people at the same time who can instantly use 1 TP move and either A, kill everyone anywhere near him by doing 3k+ DMG, or B, hit everyone with a 10 count doom effect. Nothing in leveling will prepare you for that. Nothing in leveling will tell you to go build TP on weak mobs and then run in to WS the big mob you have been fighting for 2 hours either. Nothing in leveling will prepare you for a COR and SMN being the only viable source of DMG because the rate of the area is to low and the DT is to high so you need them to take down a very powerful regen effect put up by a specific deadly TP move. Nothing in leveling has anything to do with anything to do with WKs, period.

I know you are better than that and everything does lie within the skill of the people you are playing with.

You can't blame the DEVs for this. It's the people's job to learn how to lead, organize, and work as a team.

The problem I see with NA community is there's too many "I cants, I won't, I refuse, I'm lazy."

Unorganized and frustrated because people don't listen to each other, pay attention, take the initiative to step up and work out a good strategy and open their minds to trying something else than what people only know that works, unless doing events that are setup with robotic repeat mechanics like VW and Abyssea.

Yes, I know a lot of English players are ignorant lazy bastards but guess what, an event like WKs which require you to work with even more of these kinds of people by force is not good especially because of that very reason. If I have no choice but to work with a guy who thinks he can Twilight zombie Yumcax, and he does nothing but raise up and die over and over every 10 seconds for 3 hour, guess what, me and the rest of the people around are screwed because of this ignorant fool.

And because people haven't played as long as you or play as good as you, or have the same gear and skills, experience, you are here complaining over an event that you have a hard time succeeding to get what you want.

When the fault isn't the event because when a good group of skilled players get together, these bosses go down in 2 hours or less depending on the manpower available.

You show me an alliance of people killing a Yumcax in less than 3 hours. Please, do it, because till I see that shit, I will never, ever, believe that its even close to possible.

And because you don't have any control to make these events work perfect to your desire, this is why you are angry pissed off and ready to rant.

No, I have no way to make them not completely suck. I don't want them to be perfect, I just want them to not suck, yet my feedback on how to not suck has yet to be implemented, and thus, yes, I rant, but not exactly for the reason you gave. My ranting is brought upon by the fact you defend them on this subject at nearly every turn, which is stupid, because they do not deserve the defense, I will defend them and they will be worthy of it the exact moment they can make content properly which does not actually make me want to quit every time I participate in it, which is the case with WKs. My last 2 WKs I have done I was seconds away from deleting my account after, and never returning, because it is sickening to me how little they listen on the most important of issues with this game and it being enjoyable for me and others like me, and at the same time how they can think events like WKs can be enjoyable.

That is why I rant.

[Daemon]

Because I have no problem with some of the positives, other things you try to make sound like they are positives are not.

No, simply make it an event which does not require 50~100 people to win. If people kill it easy the first week then awesome, but at least it will have longevity without being an annoying pain in the ass. You act, or rather, you and SE act, like the only way to make an event last more than 10 minutes is to either make the drops work stupidly. With VW it was super low drops but easy to spam, with WKs its higher drops but takes hours upon hours to do. These are stupid systems. If you want an event to have longevity you need to make the event fun, entertaining, difficult, winnable, fair, and rewarding.

No matter how they adjust it. It will never be 100% fair. Look at VW? Random numbers or "Luck" as you call it will never be fair. Unless they bring the event back to 18 alliance as you want it to be, then DEVs would have to go back old obstacles. They would only be pulling the rope to the other side.

Make boss easy for less people would only mean increase boss kills for lower drop rate so items don't overflate the community. Which means back to everyone complaining why no one invites the job I want to play??

Then they would have to add proc system to FORCE you to invite other jobs.

VW was fun, entertaining, and winnable. It was not fair, rewarding, or difficult. Most NMs introduced through VW had stupidly over powered attacks like Harpies, or Naraka, even worse, Gullu, had they been properly balanced, it would be fair, rewards needed changed to be at higher rates, and temps could have been simply removed as procs alone should have been enough to make it strategic to bring some jobs over others, but it should never have been required to proc or die.

You want WR to be VW??

WKs are difficult, winnable, and mostly rewarding. Tweeks that need to be made to make it a good event are changing the reward system so you always get something of value, be it a boss drop or not, something of value should be gotten so your time was not wasted. To make it fair, lets remove giant AoE doom from Yumcax, make the adds repop a little slower so there is more a point to killing them, and remove party/alliance based hate. To make it fun, simply allow people to actually get evaluations on any job, fix that, because some jobs like PLD which are required for this, get barely anything for coming in terms of Bayld.

I'm not disagreeing with you, and I'm sure they will eventually adjust the event over time. I saw it happen in previous content. But the difference is, I wasn't on the forums 24/7 hounding the DEV TEAM to do it.

And to me, you are wasting your breathe complaining over something I see will be eventually sorted out later. If the DEVs didn't do it at the moment, its because they have reasons we don't know about.

Old style HNMs, those were horrible, but WKs, are horrible too, just not as much so.

And what you see in WR are the DEVs way of making HNM event better. It's just hard to please people at ilvl 120 than level 70-75. Bigger difference, bigger demands, and less patience at this point of the game.

No, I like how drops work in VW & WKs to an extent. Personally my favorite item system comes from Skirmish. Items drop to the pool and everyone gets their own items, if you are unlucky and can not get it from the pool you can obtain items, in this case, wings, to trade in for the drop of your choice. In the end, you always get what you want, but you can get it either way, and everyone gets something, no one is screwed.

Because you can see who gets rare. I think discreet is better so people don't get jealous or disappointed they saw someone get all the good drops. Or the good drops more than once. Only for everyone to see that person bail after getting their item.

It would be best to make every job have a use in content, but they hardly every do job fixes which are desperately needed to begin with.

Which is important to you right now? Job fixes? Or adding in Skirmish, WR items, Delve items, New craft weapons, new bosses, additional content? I mean is it really that desperately urgent?

At least that made every job relevant. I do not want it to be forced, and I do not want it to be wide spread & temp rewarding, but in all honesty procs were never a bad thing to me. The problem is with procs in VW they were required, and in Aby they were drop enhancing, so we never used procs for procs really, we used procs for Fanatics because we would get ass raped without it, and for enhanced drop rates. If they were procs only for the sake of giving a mob amnesia or silence when it is otherwise impossible/near impossible, yes, I would like them back, so long as they are done well, not every WS being a possible proc, or every spell, or every JA.

At end game, I like the freedom to participate than be strict to doing what in told at the moment. If I want that, abbyssea and VW can fill that need. I just think its refreshing to show up any job I want and actually play my job that someone telling me every second to proc this, proc that, oh sorry its your fault the entire team died, or we don't need your job because your procs are not needed.

Making an event possible with few or no other people if you are good enough, while also making it realistic for people to be able to do this. Stupid restrictions on things like Salvage, Assaults, or other things of the sort are only holding players back from doing things they want. At the same time, needing an alliance of people to do things like Plasm Farm(I know super people can do it with 6, but those who need it most, cant) is foolish, there should be a way to farm Plasm without any form of NMs in the area with you. A fracture in Cirdas Caverns itself perhaps with no NMs, only a bunch of smaller mobs, their area bonus could be random between the other areas, which is currently Ice Spikes, Attack, and EVA. Make the mobs drop the same amount of Plasm, make them a bit weaker, and everyone could do it. Make WKs weaker so less people are capable of fighting them still, since popularity dies fast on new events it also means that the armies required to take down something like a WK will also die down fast, and leave the content nearly unbeatable as a result.

That's what makes every event different, and to me it sounds like you hate every event.

There is no way to change people, or those who control the majority of groups. You see people complain all the time about people shouting for Oat MNKs now just like RME MNKs would have been the choice before. You can not avoid this, no matter what you do, and it will never change. The only way you can try to help others in your position get away from this kind of thing is by making more open minded groups yourself, who will take anyone. The problem is, most wont do it, and even those who do, often end up resorting to the exact thing they are against. I know a few MNKs who are Rigor MNKs and want Oats, all shouts for MNKs on our server for Tojil are Oat MNKs only, so what do the MNKs I know do? They either get in via a friend like me, or they make their own, but when they make their own, I have noticed, they ask for only Oat MNKs too. So really, only the people effected by 'elitism' can help those who are effected by it, by being open minded in the making of their own groups.

One of the issues NA community has is discriminating players for not playing the job they want you to play. Which doesn't happen most of the time in JP parties unless its an event that forces leaders to invite specific jobs.

[Demon6324236]

You don't understand half my arguments, so I'm done here.

[Daemon]

You don't understand half my arguments, so I'm done here.

I understand your arguments. But there's a big difference in someone who spams an event so many times that disappointment tends to build up to a point frustration changes your way of thinking.

I use to farm scrolls, bosses, items, gear, everything all the time everyday non stop and get angry that I wasted so much time getting no where. Then I stopped and started doing things here and there pacing myself to play different events than spam the same 1 and had better results.

Right now I'm talking to a person worn out, stressed out, angry, pissed off, frustrated over an event. While you are talking to a person who is relaxed, played the event a few times to see what the overall picture of the event is setup to be and know that spamming it non stop will only put me in the same mind set as you.

11 years playing final fantasy 11 this is just my experience.

And every time you get a pebble, it only makes you even more pissed off adding on top of the disappointment you had from previous disappointments.

And lack of sleep doesn't help either.

[Demon6324236]

I only do WKs when I see shouts, I do Skirmish, Delve, Bosses, and many other things as well. Its not as though its the only content I do. My anger right now comes not from the event, but your lack of understanding.

[Daemon]

I only do WKs when I see shouts, I do Skirmish, Delve, Bosses, and many other things as well. Its not as though its the only content I do. My anger right now comes not from the event, but your lack of understanding.

And I'm telling you I'm not lacking understanding. If you and me and a handful of people were the only players. Then I could agree with you 100%.

But I've spent many hours a day throughout several years playing with all types of people spamming endless quests and helping others who need it to know that they matter too.

And those people struggling worse than you and me are having it harder than us because no one will help them or consider helping them since we are beyond their level with different priorities.

And when I look at events and content like SoA, I see things DEV Team are trying to implement for everyone and not just for end game players only.

That includes addressing issues for them too and not just us.

You complain there's not enough people to play WR? Ill complain there's not enough people helping those in need to fill up those spots to do WR.

At least I know that helping people below our level will someday bring those people up to our level and adding them to friends list and building friendships will allow anyone to get things accomplished.

It's why my friendslist is full and I care enough to message each one and invite them to all events I play. And this is why I cannot relate to most of you and everyone else's arguments.

But then how many people you see never look back and give a damn about other players that they are struggling trying to find help or reasons to stay playing FFXI and only want what's best for them and complain how DEV TEAM can make it better for those who want their items now and don't care about building personal friendships, helping others but rather join groups with temporary people who you have no real intention to do more than just the current event being played to get my needs and move on before the train falls apart?

This is not the DEV TEAMs fault and I know the difference when playing with NA and JP players. And JP players opened my eyes to things NA players will never realize until you join a family type JP LS and experience this for yourself.