This thread AGAIN, please, fix WK.

[detlef]

I think you're grossly underestimating the number of people who have virtually no experience in delve. A large portion of the people doing these would probably kill for a big chunk of plasm instead of going days at a time without getting into even a crappy 3-4k plasm run.

Maybe so. Regardless, I personally would prefer for the focus to be guaranteeing a drop somehow (through library quest if necessary) rather than making Wildskeeper an alternative plasm farming mechanism. I have my own ideas for making Delve more pickup friendly (namely shifting more of the plasm from the zone boss to the lesser NMs) but that's neither here nor there.

[Daemon]

It only takes about an hour to earn 75k Bayld in Skirmish. We are given the ability to earn Bayld back during the fight. Boss fight is suppose to be fun. And yeah all bosses in the game have bad drop rates.

I still think these items are far more superior in power vs other drops in older content that even require much more time than this. Although I agree adding some other loot to keep people interested, speaking from the point of view of not getting one of the best items yet from any Nakuul I see that others are getting items.

In my eyes that doesn't say the event is broken.

Having the ability to jump into the fight at any moment % HP left to me is a privilege and not having to be there from start to end waiting 1 entire week or farming pop, earning Gil to buy 1 pop, WR is still easier than other events.

If 150 people joined 1 Nakuul and 0 people got an item then I could agree that the DEVs should adjust drop rate to make it easier but that's not the case and the big picture I see is that as more people get the bigger drops faster, the sooner the event will die making it even more difficult for people to earn any items.

The event is here, the moment is now I believe we should enjoy it while we can. But to say the drop rate is bad doesn't add up when you base experience from 1 point of view and not from the view of everyone who participated.

Getting nothing after 10, 20, 30 fights still doesn't compare to 600/1,000/2,000 fights or spending several months doing endless quests like Mythic. Waiting to only participate only once per day from restricted areas.

Yeah maybe bad luck plays a part but I see 1 fight has the ability to drop X amount of items and rares. And as more people participate, chances of you getting an item becomes harder.

If 18 people participate in 1 boss like Kirin, X amount of drops would be shared across 18 people but the leader would have to decide who gets to lot these items.

Then again 150+ are given the ability to have a chance of receiving a rare than the headache of killing each other over 1 drop.

I just don't see 1 boss drop 20/30/50/100 best rares out of 1 fight. And although seeing it from the point of view of spending several hours on 1 nakuul can give you the reason to feel its not worth your time, 1 kill can only offer so many items.

We just don't have the ability to see who is getting them which maybe would change everyone's point of view if SE gave indication to how many people got one of the best rares per fight.

Competition sucks but its better now than trusting leaders to decide who fairly deserves to lot a rare. Past experience didn't work because many complained they got screwed by greedy people who used others to get what they wanted.

[OmnysValefor]

It only takes about an hour to earn 75k Bayld in Skirmish. We are given the ability to earn Bayld back during the fight. Boss fight is suppose to be fun. And yeah all bosses in the game have bad drop rates.

1. Skirmish failed.
2. All bosses don't have bad drop rates.
3. In the beginning, you couldn't even earn half back. Now, for the old ones, they're free if they last long enough and you're famed high enough. I got about 10k from bee both times I've done it since update. I got 30k from the shark lol, so I gained 5k bayld for 4 hours. I'm stoked!

I still think these items are far more superior in power vs other drops in older content that even require much more time than this. Although I agree adding some other loot to keep people interested, speaking from the point of view of not getting one of the best items yet from any Nakuul I see that others are getting items.

You're kinda wrong. They're superior in power because they're current content drops, but a lot of people can't wrap their heads around the idea that this gear is making us be a higher level. The gear is amazing right now, but it's going to be ~entry level to manage in new delve. SE said that when they outlined all this crap.

In my eyes that doesn't say the event is broken.

Having the ability to jump into the fight at any moment % HP left to me is a privilege and not having to be there from start to end waiting 1 entire week or farming pop, earning Gil to buy 1 pop, WR is still easier than other events.

If 150 people joined 1 Nakuul and 0 people got an item then I could agree that the DEVs should adjust drop rate to make it easier but that's not the case and the big picture I see is that as more people get the bigger drops faster, the sooner the event will die making it even more difficult for people to earn any items.

The event is here, the moment is now I believe we should enjoy it while we can. But to say the drop rate is bad doesn't add up when you base experience from 1 point of view and not from the view of everyone who played this event.

It's several people basing it from their points of view, and that of their friends and ls mates. Some people are going 1/1 on Dring, others are 1/120. D.ring's drop rate is good? (I'm pursuing a dring and not at all whining about dring's drop rate. Don't care.)

Getting nothing after 10, 20, 30 fights still doesn't compare to 600/1,000/2,000 fights or spending several months doing endless quests like Mythic. Waiting to only participate only once per day from restricted areas.

Worst-designed loot systems does not excuse poorly designed loot-systems tied to poorly-designed battles encapsuled in a poorly programmed game where people DC if too many people are on the battlefield, and thus progress is lost. If they DC very near the end, reward is lost too. Cost isn't, but reward is.

Yeah, at this point, Imadbro.

Yeah maybe bad luck plays a part but I see 1 fight has the ability to drop X amount of items and rares. And as more people participate, chances of you getting an item becomes harder.

If 18 people participate in 1 boss like Kirin, X amount of drops would be shared across 18 people but the leader would have to decide who gets to lot these items.

In a pug, that kind of stuff sucks, but when I'm part of a linkshell, guild (other games), or static group, I'm willing to work for the good of the group. I didn't last very long in Aery because I thought spending that much time for a chance at a claim, not even loot, was stupid.

Then again 150+ are given the ability to have a chance of receiving a rare than the headache of killing each other over 1 drop.

I just don't see 1 boss drop 20/30/50/100 best rares out of 1 fight. And although seeing it from the point of view of spending several hours on 1 nakuul can give you the reason to feel its not worth your time, 1 kill can only offer so many items.

We just don't have the ability to see who is getting them which maybe would change everyone's point of view if SE gave indication to how many people got one of the best rares per fight.

[Daemon]

1. Skirmish failed.
2. All bosses don't have bad drop rates.
3. In the beginning, you couldn't even earn half back. Now, for the old ones, they're free if they last long enough and you're famed high enough. I got about 10k from bee both times I've done it since update. I got 30k from the shark lol, so I gained 5k bayld for 4 hours. I'm stoked!



You're kinda wrong. They're superior in power because they're current content drops, but a lot of people can't wrap their heads around the idea that this gear is making us be a higher level. The gear is amazing right now, but it's going to be ~entry level to manage in new delve. SE said that when they outlined all this crap.



It's several people basing it from their points of view, and that of their friends and ls mates. Some people are going 1/1 on Dring, others are 1/120. D.ring's drop rate is good? (I'm pursuing a dring and not at all whining about dring's drop rate. Don't care.)



Worst-designed loot systems does not excuse poorly designed loot-systems tied to poorly-designed battles encapsuled in a poorly programmed game where people DC if too many people are on the battlefield, and thus progress is lost. If they DC very near the end, reward is lost too. Cost isn't, but reward is.

Yeah, at this point, Imadbro.



In a pug, that kind of stuff sucks, but when I'm part of a linkshell, guild (other games), or static group, I'm willing to work for the good of the group. I didn't last very long in Aery because I thought spending that much time for a chance at a claim, not even loot, was stupid.

The way see it, if people are complaining about the drop rate of items and the event itself right now only tells me those people will definitely never go back and help others get what they need after obtaining these items. What's the point? You got what you wanted and now you will have other reasons to do something else than participate in the area that many people are doing right now.

Realistically do you see everyone go back and help others do something you have no interest in?

I understand these items are suppose to help you reach higher level but different levels of progression are not suppose to get easier as you further reach end game. It's suppose to be much more challenging.

The new Delve is not even here yet but many people already breezing though the Delve we have now. Maybe it's not the intention to make the new Delve easy and possibly the effort to be part of it will be designed to require much more effort for even more superior items than Nakuul.

Whenever did gear not give you some sort of power? That's the point in earning them to begin with.

[detlef]

You know why I wouldn't go back? Aside from drops, it's because the event is not fun, can be a horrible wipe fest, and doesn't reward people properly for contributions.

[OmnysValefor]

The majority of people breezing through current-delve are doing so because they're effectively level 120. The gear is that good. Groups on my server that couldn't kill 3/5 in morimar are regularly killing Tojil now.

Not just because of weapon skill's translation to damage (in the case of monk), but because of the enormous acc/att bonus, people are doing pretty well even before bard songs. With Bur'menkah alone, my pld can do 2.5-3k WS on fodder in delve, and I never get bard buffs. Before Burm, I was lucky to clear 1k. I didn't suddenly become more amazing, the gear's level jacked me up.

[Daemon]

The majority of people breezing through current-delve are doing so because they're effectively level 120. The gear is that good. Groups on my server that couldn't kill 3/5 in morimar are regularly killing Tojil now.

Not just because of weapon skill's translation to damage (in the case of monk), but because of the enormous acc/att bonus, people are doing pretty well even before bard songs. With Bur'menkah alone, my pld can do 2.5-3k WS on fodder in delve, and I never get bard buffs. Before Burm, I was lucky to clear 1k. I didn't suddenly become more amazing, the gear's level jacked me up.

Ok but at some point I don't see DEVs continuing to add endless content forever. At some point they will have to stop in order to plan new expansions. I just think people like you are playing faster than what the DEVs can provide in such a short time.

Also I'm not talking about doing Skirmish for items. I'm saying you have the most easy way to earn 75k doing skirmish due to being able to earn 5K in less than 5-10 minutes per entrance. Devs lowered the cost to purchase KI down to 50-75k and yet allows us a further discount through rank.

That's not easy enough?

The expansion is only 5 months old. Things like REM gave everyone a reason to play several months. I'm sure things like WR was meant for the same purpose. New Delve will be too.

At the rate you are going, SE would have to implement an entire game to keep you satisfied after you just proved how fast your progression currently is.

[Daemon]

You know why I wouldn't go back? Aside from drops, it's because the event is not fun, can be a horrible wipe fest, and doesn't reward people properly for contributions.

Instant gratification is not the reason some of us play FFXI and that's how I see FFXI is becoming.

[detlef]

Instant gratification is not the reason some of us play FFXI and that's how I see FFXI is becoming.

Wait, what part of my post makes you say that.

-I said it isn't fun. If you've participated in a truly bad Hurkan or Yumcax I don't see how you could disagree.
-I said it can be a horrible wipe fest, which is really just restating what I said. The potential duration of the fight can be a real turn-off for hardcores and casuals alike.
-I said that the rewards aren't done properly. By that I mean the XP and Bayld. You're far better off coming on a DD job, capping your bayld and afking in a corner than coming on an important job like COR, BRD, or PLD.

Furthermore, I'd also like to add:

-You can't predict when it will happen so you can't schedule around it.

I don't think you can disagree with any of this, and these are the real reasons people would not want to go back. What does this have to do with instant gratification?

[Daemon]

Wait, what part of my post makes you say that.

-I said it isn't fun. If you've participated in a truly bad Hurkan or Yumcax I don't see how you could disagree.
-I said it can be a horrible wipe fest, which is really just restating what I said. The potential duration of the fight can be a real turn-off for hardcores and casuals alike.
-I said that the rewards aren't done properly. By that I mean the XP and Bayld. You're far better off coming on a DD job, capping your bayld and afking in a corner than coming on an important job like COR, BRD, or PLD.

Furthermore, I'd also like to add:

-You can't predict when it will happen so you can't schedule around it.

I don't think you can disagree with any of this, and these are the real reasons people would not want to go back. What does this have to do with instant gratification?

But if you read all of my posts I never disagreed to any of those points. I even agreed adding in other rewards would be good, allowing us to see who is ready for WR by implementing a flag option. Adding a way to see who gets one of the best rares.

Horrible wipe fest happens all the time but I'm sure SE did implement ways to achieve winning just many of us haven't figured out the strategy.

Why? I believe someone mentioned SE implemented a previous event that everyone complained took massive hours only for the DEV team to upload a video proving it can be done effortlessly.

Point is, I don't think they would intentionally implement something so hard without a way to achieve a successful fight in a timely manner.

I may not have tried Yumcax to make any comments related to your argument but I did do Hurkan and was told magic damage does not work however I was able to deal over 3.5k with Tier 5 spells. After reading many complaints on the forums I assumed it far more worse than what the fight really was which gave me a false impression at first glance.

I don't know about you but I didn't see anyone wipe out and I actually had fun participating.

As for the duration of the fight, I joined Hurkan party at 100% in less than 3 hours it was dead. Which I'm repeating myself because these things were in my other replies.

I just don't agree making the event easier will make it better. Giving other rewards I never disagreed.

Some people do expect drops to be instant gratification and this is not why I came to FFXI. Otherwise I'd play Diablo III and WoW instead.

If we both agreed on the same points then I took your replies as debates and gave my opinion to why I think we have it better than previous events.