This thread AGAIN, please, fix WK.

[Daemon]

You can do just fine in the first three with abyssea gear. I got full bayld from my first run on ninja. Currently most delve shouts only want people with delve gear or mage jobs. So a guy on a melee job is gonna get delve gear a lot faster this way and since it caps, the "elite" players don't get any better rewards or plasm. Everyone is pretty much even in that respect. They just get a little more afk time after they hit the cap. Which works out fine because people don't usually start flocking to these until they have been whittled down some and once they do, you don't really want a bunch of uber DDS crushing it before everyone else gets a chance to earn their keep.



There is no gap. everyone is illegible for the same plasm / bayld / drops. The only people who get screwed are people who show up late. Which is the case now anyways.





I don't really see how anyone with a stack of sushi and a reraise item / spell could be under-geared for the first three and since I'm sure that's where most people would go if they were looking to cap bayld / plasm fast and easy, I don't really see the problem.

EDIT: on a related note, anyone who doesn't have delve gear or a desireable support job is SOL on cerberus anyways. There is literally like 1 shout per day for NQ plasm runs. Everything else is Boss runs looking for 3/4 song bard and stun set scholars.

Plasm is the main focus of Delve. Giving that away to WR would take away from Delve. People also relearn how to work as a team dodging or fighting each boss to earn those Kis. I still think giving 20k plasm in WR will direct everyone to WR and kill Delve. As much as I hate the same Paladin Sach setups, the point is we did learn several things from Delve. Food counts, difference between each NM, splitting up as a team to take on different halls, time management between each boss, mistakes for not listening to each other. If WR can provide all these things, then I could easily agree with you but from speed leveling in Gusgens to Abyssea, I just don't see anyone learning these values by going to WR and skipping Delve.

People may ask others to have a Delve weapon but not everyone that leads a party will require that from everybody. I still see nice leaders only asking for REM and others who don't have these will show up on another job instead be it Mage class.

Delve parties require specific jobs, WR allows much more freedom to allow people to show up any job they want.

Unless you rather see people skip delve all together and just get Nakuul weapons instead and never have the need to touch Delve first, that's how I see the outcome of this idea. Which means everyone who did spend time earning Delve gear made it effortless to those who never entered Delve to get what you are now killing yourself trying to earn.

[detlef]

As much as I hate the same Paladin Sach setups, the point is we did learn several things from Delve. Food counts, difference between each NM, splitting up as a team to take on different halls, time management between each boss, mistakes for not listening to each other. If WR can provide all these things, then I could easily agree with you but from speed leveling in Gusgens to Abyssea, I just don't see anyone learning these values by going to WR and skipping Delve.

Huh. If 3k plasm runs die, nothing of value will be lost. If you're talking about mega boss runs, those will obviously continue to be the best. Even 10k 1-5 runs will be superior to Wildskeeper if time is a factor.

[OmnysValefor]

The NM probably does need a very geared tank, and a good healer / backup healer / bard / cor ... something.

Beyond that, if people's skills are capped and their gear is decent (I mean, even bayld gear like karieyh, orvail), people can participate and do well, or should be able to if SE would teak the system.

[OmnysValefor]

This argument is depressing. Many people here have presented several experiences of just... terrible luck with loot and terrible experiences fighting and while you talk about hypothetical change, you argue against any real change anyone offers, Daemon.

Others have said they did indeed get lucky and got their desired drop right away, and still despise the system.

The system doesn't work favorably. The ONLY thing a person can do to make the fight go better is to come on a good job for it and try to get others to do the same. If people don't want to, there's nothing you can do. If the fight should last 5 times longer than it should have, there's nothing you can do. At least past mass-havoc battles didn't have quite so important personal rewards, and none required such effort for personal investment.

In Besieged and Campaign, the NPC's picked up our slack, but there's none here and there shouldn't be, because the last thing we need is more lag.

SE needs to entice people to want to come to these things and this is a fair way to make that happen. That's all this idea is trying to do.

I think one of the problems is that you seem to be coming at this exansion sideways. In the beginning, there were only Naakual so some people did that.. Not everyone, but some. Naakual/Skirmish was the entry level event of the expansion. After that came Delve. You were meant to have good pre-Adoulin gear/bayld gear/skirmish*/WK to get into delve.

*We all know that skirmish failed to launch, that's not worth talking about.

You were meant to take delve weapons and delve gear to down delve NMs (smoothly, yeah, it had to be doable in the first place, but everyone had to play their A game...). I can be fairly sure that an alliance of pre-adoulin, but otherwise decked out, RME 99s couldn't clear a 1-5+Tojil, even knowing all the mechanics.

While more difficult, new Naakual are not so difficult that a person needs some great level of gear to attend. As matter of fact, the buffs to karieyh, etc, probably make them fine for killing fodder/ranged-ing the boss. A full orvail bard could participate and probably do as well as a gjallyharp-whch is not good, but that's because the system is designed poorly.

The only exception is smn, because smn gear is pretty unique and so they don't get a lot of summoner friendly stats on mage-wide gear, which is a favor toe mages in general.

[Daemon]

This argument is depressing. Many people here have presented several experiences of just... terrible luck with loot and terrible experiences fighting and while you talk about hypothetical change, you argue against any real change anyone offers, Daemon.

Others have said they did indeed get lucky and got their desired drop right away, and still despise the system.

The system doesn't work favorably. The ONLY thing a person can do to make the fight go better is to come on a good job for it and try to get others to do the same. If people don't want to, there's nothing you can do. If the fight should last 5 times longer than it should have, there's nothing you can do. At least past mass-havoc battles didn't have quite so important personal rewards, and none required such effort for personal investment.

In Besieged and Campaign, the NPC's picked up our slack, but there's none here and there shouldn't be, because the last thing we need is more lag.

SE needs to entice people to want to come to these things and this is a fair way to make that happen. That's all this idea is trying to do.

I think one of the problems is that you seem to be coming at this exansion sideways. In the beginning, there were only Naakual so some people did that.. Not everyone, but some. Naakual/Skirmish was the entry level event of the expansion. After that came Delve. You were meant to have good pre-Adoulin gear/bayld gear/skirmish*/WK to get into delve.

*We all know that skirmish failed to launch, that's not worth talking about.

You were meant to take delve weapons and delve gear to down delve NMs (smoothly, yeah, it had to be doable in the first place, but everyone had to play their A game...). I can be fairly sure that an alliance of pre-adoulin, but otherwise decked out, RME 99s couldn't clear a 1-5+Tojil, even knowing all the mechanics.

While more difficult, new Naakual are not so difficult that a person needs some great level of gear to attend. As matter of fact, the buffs to karieyh, etc, probably make them fine for killing fodder/ranged-ing the boss. A full orvail bard could participate and probably do as well as a gjallyharp-whch is not good, but that's because the system is designed poorly.

The only exception is smn, because smn gear is pretty unique and so they don't get a lot of summoner friendly stats on mage-wide gear, which is a favor toe mages in general.

Present better ideas. I won't argue if the idea is good. I never disagreed that WR needs to be better. I just don't agree with something like adding plasm to WR.

You don't see SE adding Allied notes to WoE. What about assault points to Salvage? Why do besieged if you can earn points in Assault, NNI, Salvage? That's how I see your idea.

[OmnysValefor]

"They haven't done it in the past, so they shouldn't do it now" is a poor argument. Especially when they haven't added an event with these issues in the past.

All those things you listed did quite well in their heyday. Most (I gotta admit Bastion was awful) of SE's battle content has. Wildskeeper are not.

[Daemon]

"They haven't done it in the past, so they shouldn't do it now" is a poor argument. Especially when they haven't added an event with these issues in the past.

All those things you listed did quite well in their heyday. Most (I gotta admit Bastion was awful) of SE's battle content has. Wildskeeper are not.

That's not my argument >.>. When I run out of Imperial standing, I still join Besiege to earn it. The point is, although that event is several years old, I still go back and participate in that event. Which is why I see that the DEVs implemented it that way. To keep events like Besieged alive in a game with no ending.

[detlef]

Remember when they added king abjurations to Einherjar? Hoo boy, that ruined everything.

[Daemon]

Remember when they added king abjurations to Einherjar? Hoo boy, that ruined everything.

Abjuration prizes is not the same as Currency. 1 item vs trillions of numbers that everyone can get has a bigger impact on the server.

Same as how Gil effects the economy. Plasm is a type of Currency. Making it easier to earn things also makes it faster to do things which speeds up the goal of how the Devs want a player to reach.

More plasm means obtaining Delve gear faster, upgrade faster, then what's the point of the event if Everyone gets everything, max upgrades everything fast? Same as asking to increase drop rate of everything in game.

As I said I know how these things work being on a private server of another game. Which is also how the DEV TEAM balances out the game based on time factor.

[detlef]

You know when they added Dynamis currency to the Penguin Ring event? Or when they added it to Campaign battle? Or when they added it to Meebles? I think that killed the game for me.