a thought

[Chichicha]

Agree with Original Post.

My THF PUP DRK COR are mostly my main job, until Tojil came up with MNK strat. I went to get whatever gears I can for the preparation. Also, went to some party to train myself how to play a MNK right...

Since after than, I have been going with random Pick up Group to Tojil, as my MNK (Rigor Rank 8). Surprisingly, when I was doing comparing damage output. I am usually at top 2 damage dealer, when there are a 2 to 3 of Oat MNK.
(While I am one of the party leader to manage the Rotation invite... busy, focus, playing it right...)

Sadly enough, I know that our server has been doing mercenary win. Therefore many of the MNKs out there with Tojil H2H is not really doing as much damage as me...

Nowadays, SoA made Gears > Playing Skill in this games, already made me cancelled everything except myself remains in game. (Silent Protest lolz)

[Damane]

I can't post the reasons you're incorrect, as this official forum doesn't allow talk of such things that would require mentioning.

Delve doesn't take any co-ordination. If you've seen the people wearing delve boss gear, this is painfully obvious. The "stunners" are using ******** to do the stuns, they're not doing it themselves.

The whms are the only ones that really need to be good, and those ones are in the minority, severe minority.

I am sorry I am one of the stunners and I am stunning manually by hand... (and yes sometimes a move gets through due to lag) You seem to have no idea what is required to do delve successfull ¬.¬

[Karah]

If moves are getting through then you are in fact not stunning. Blame lag (and it's true) but you're still a failure.

It's specifically your fault if you lose.

That sounds like an excellent playing model.

Delve takes zero co-ordination. You auto attack. Pray to altana your whm keeps you alive. Hit Ctrl 1 a couple times. Get new gear.

While also praying that the rest of the melee can hit ctrl 1 as well as or better than you can. (which is generally not the case...).

/pcmd leave /join ctrl 1 ctrl 2 ctrl 3 ctrl 4 /pcmd leave /join ctrl 1 ctrl 2 ctrl 3 ctrl 4 is not coordination. Mantra order is not needed/never works anyway/people don't pay attention.

War need not apply so bloodrage/warcry/tomahawk staggering irrelevant. Chiblast staggering nonexistant. Agnon is only one guy whenever it's up.

[Secondplanet]

Sadly enough, I know that our server has been doing mercenary win. Therefore many of the MNKs out there with Tojil H2H is not really doing as much damage as me... (Silent Protest lolz)

I'm surprised that SE hasn't deemed this as RMT since they did it to FC parties, but if i had the gil i would do it, my h2h skill is capped, my guard skill is close to cap, i'm only using rigor on my mnk since i don't have oats, and my gear isn't bad at all. but most groups when asked want 20mil+ to tag along, and what makes it worse is that they can sell off the drops from the final boss for more then 20mil afterwards (teeth, wings, etc..) I just don't like being treated as a second rate monk for not having a weapon the most people i know bought theirs instead of earning them.

[Melraen]

Not quite sure how anyone can defend this mentality. If Square-Enix had put Delve in the game with having a Delve weapon being the requirement to enter, and only being able to get it from the event, how many people would be complaining about how stupid that is? And how pointless having an event that no-one can do is? It may not be exactly the same, obviously. But yes... The "required" gear can hardly be required, since someone had to beat the content without it. Logic! Or something...

[FrankReynolds]

Not quite sure how anyone can defend this mentality. If Square-Enix had put Delve in the game with having a Delve weapon being the requirement to enter, and only being able to get it from the event, how many people would be complaining about how stupid that is? And how pointless having an event that no-one can do is? It may not be exactly the same, obviously. But yes... The "required" gear can hardly be required, since someone had to beat the content without it. Logic! Or something...

You know that it takes 18 people, costs money to enter takes 45 minutes + and can earn a group $50+ million right? Why would anyone bring someone that "Could" beat it when they could bring someone who "Has" beat it?

When I need my faucet fixed, I don't bring in any guy with a plumbers crack just cuz he looks like he might be handy with a wrench. I bring in the guy with the big truck that says "Plumber" on the side cuz I know he's gonna get the job done.

Any time they make content that requires more than one person, the community decides who can and can't do it. The community has decided that no matter how awesome you are at Thief, you won't be coming unless you put down that Evasion Thocktcha, switch to monk and throw on some Oats.

[Secondplanet]

You know that it takes 18 people, costs money to enter takes 45 minutes + and can earn a group $50+ million right? Why would anyone bring someone that "Could" beat it when they could bring someone who "Has" beat it?

When I need my faucet fixed, I don't bring in any guy with a plumbers crack just cuz he looks like he might be handy with a wrench. I bring in the guy with the big truck that says "Plumber" on the side cuz I know he's gonna get the job done.

Any time they make content that requires more than one person, the community decides who can and can't do it. The community has decided that no matter how awesome you are at Thief, you won't be coming unless you put down that Evasion Thocktcha, switch to monk and throw on some Oats.

So what your saying is Do as I say, not as I do. As in I was able to beat this boss without these weapons but now that i have mine, you are required to have yours before i'll allow you to come..... Just like Melraen said LOGIC.

*added* also to point out that if you think that if someone has oat's they've already done the fight you don't pay attention much to /yells. People are selling spots for these were you can sit back and they do all the work. Yeah, really earned that one didn't they?

[FrankReynolds]

So what your saying is Do as I say, not as I do. As in I was able to beat this boss without these weapons but now that i have mine, you are required to have yours before i'll allow you to come..... Just like Melraen said LOGIC.

Yes, LOGIC. "Mine" Performs 50% better than yours. I know people talk all this smack about wanting "More challenging content" on these forums, but you don't actually believe that do you? If they did, they'd all be farming abyssea with no atmas on just for the "hard mode" experience.

No, they want more loot. Not more challenge. That's why they don't all jump on their favorite jobs with their favorite friends and go figure out how they can beat it. They get the best gear and they level / equip whatever they have to so that they can knock it out.

And they aren't looking to make friends or help people out (if they are, it's someone who is a friend and they are doing so by only bringing the best geared players they can find). They are looking for the fastest, safest way to win and that way is with the best geared people they can get.

*added* also to point out that if you think that if someone has oat's they've already done the fight you don't pay attention much to /yells. People are selling spots for these were you can sit back and they do all the work. Yeah, really earned that one didn't they?

Someone who has them is far more likely to have earned them than someone who does not have them. If you're looking to build a team, who do you pick? The guy with the championship rings or the guy in warm up pants?

The difference in damage can be win or lose in this event. Why risk it for a stranger.

[Morier]

actually this is not true, we have been going now gear > skill in the last couple years. Abyssea was piss easy after a while, Voidwatch is a zerg contest with temp items that make you basicly invinicble. Legion? have 3 sch/blms and be done with it.

Delve requires you to have the coordiniation, skill AND gear to succeed. Some runs can be over before you reach the megaboss just because of 1 mistake. Some megabosses can still fuck you over because of misstimed stun or lag or stun starting to resist because dmg is weaksauce on it.
and Some runs are over because that 1 person on a key job is just horrible. Delve requires key jobs that cant be replaced with just anything: melees need to be on point, brds in melee pts need to be on point, sch/blms need to be on point, rdm (puller debuffer) needs to be on point, geos need to be on point, whms need to be on point, this leaves only room open for 3 spots that can be done with outside people from your shell... BRD in the sch pt (only needs 2 marches) and corsairs in melee pts (only need to swap PTs and keep up 4 rolls, 2 on each pt) even then people outside still manage to fuck up on those spots.

We try to avoid filling any key spot (DD RDM WHM SCH GEO BRD) with outside people, experience was just way too bad.

And so yes when inviting outside people, we evaluate them first via the gear they wear (however we dont make delve gear a necessarity its a bonus tough, we had outside people that were on point with no delve gear at all).

Invite meeeeee 2 song brd but march/minuet +4 geo capped skill as with rdm. =p

[Melraen]

You know that it takes 18 people, costs money to enter takes 45 minutes + and can earn a group $50+ million right? Why would anyone bring someone that "Could" beat it when they could bring someone who "Has" beat it?

When I need my faucet fixed, I don't bring in any guy with a plumbers crack just cuz he looks like he might be handy with a wrench. I bring in the guy with the big truck that says "Plumber" on the side cuz I know he's gonna get the job done.

Any time they make content that requires more than one person, the community decides who can and can't do it. The community has decided that no matter how awesome you are at Thief, you won't be coming unless you put down that Evasion Thocktcha, switch to monk and throw on some Oats.

Ah, my mistake then. If it's about profit and not just getting clears, then I can certainly understand why people would defend it and be happy with how it is. A lot of people tend to get much more selfish where gil is involved, sadly. =/

Still, I'd have thought that helping people out with the content would produce more people with said gear, enabling shout groups to be filled quicker, and overall saving time. Seems like it's a case of "If you haven't beaten it and don't have the gear from it, then that's your problem, not ours.", which seems kind of sad to me.

I'm sure I used to hear people talk about what a wonderful community FFXI has, but looking at these forums lately, it doesn't seem like many of the people that gave it that reputation are still around. ; ;