AF4

[nyheen]

this will be a great idea. they did it with all the element staffs so why not with the AF? ultimate AF sounds nice

[Rustic]

They have a really weird system where certains stats are grouped together, like the base stats (STR DEX etc) all count as one stat "slot", secondary stats (acc/eva etc) all count as one "slot", etc. I don't know how much I buy that but if you go by that they have never broken the "rule" that they're only allowed to have something like 4 or 5 slots total. Augments are counted seperately and are a slot of their own (which is why AF2+2 work).

I would have no problems with AF4 using the "augment" slots for a permament stat instead, if it'd allow us to properly fusion the early AF sets into something classic-FF looks with Adoulin level stats.

It's basically the Chatoyant Staff of armor we're talking about here.

[Karbuncle]

I can fully understand why they didn't want to increase the Maximum number of Merit WS obtainable by any number. Its true, We're incorrigible when it comes to this "Universal armor/weapon" Crap. I was never a fan of the "If they give us this, people will whine for that" excuse, but seriously I understand it now.

There's like, 3-4 Jobs out of all of them that would benefit from a Universal AF4, and even of them there would only be about 1-2 exceptionally worth-while pieces per job of those three, and they'll be Mage jobs. It seems like a largely unrealistic goal for the current Dev team and beyond that seems largely ineffective

You're essentially asking them to dump numerous man-hours into saving you a few inventory space and macro slots. While inventory is stupid tight, You're looking at maybe realistically 3 cleared inventory spaces based on your job if you combined A/R/E armors. I think they're going to need a d*mn good argument for this outside of "I'm anal about useless stats so I need to carry around my THF AF Vest at all times for the hide Bonus, it should be on my AF4!!", cause most of the bonuses on AF/Relic are negligable to crap, with such few gems in them for so few jobs this whole concept seems dead from the get go.

Not to mention the 4 category limit on Armor, and If they added the rest to Augments the f**king armor itself would look like a book by the end of it all. Further, how would they make this armor or obtain it? You wouldn't be thinking some practical yet challenging right? I bet it was something like "Get all 4 Pieces and trade them to a magian moogle and its combined and done!".

Are you going to include Augmented Relic+2 Stats on these sets? Are you going to include special bonuses from AF+1 that AF didn't have? (i.E Trick Attack Bonus on AF+1 Hands for THF). If so, do you people really just don't see how Impossible and improbable this would all be? Do you not understand how broken a pair of AF4 gloves for THF would be? I mean, Assuming they're not Item Level 120+ You're looking at.

HP+10 STR+8 DEX+11 CHR+7
Acc+21 Attack+16 EVA+9 Enmity+5
Treasure Hunter +2
"Steal" +1
Enhances "Trick Attack"
Enhances "Sneak Attack"
Enhances "Perfect Dodge"
Set: Augments "Triple Attack"

While it doesn't seem far and beyond to OP'd compared to recent armor, Theres far too many categories on there, And thats not even the most text worthy one, and its excluding Bonuses from the NQ versions of AF/Relic... I mean, if you delve into RDM or SCH or WHM or hell even MNK, You get into like 9-10 Lines of text for 1 piece of armor, Not only is it well above the 4 Category limit, if you add the rest on the Augments, How will you get the Augments? What will be decided as Augment or Base Stats? Will they combined 1 by one and they have to go in a specific order and have to code a+1/+2/+3/+3augmented Piece just to obtain all the stats on them?

So on and so forth, This isn't as easy as slapping +5 Stats and +2 Affinity for Magic and calling it a day... It would be much more complex, and horrifically time consuming if it was even possible to accomplish.

While I'm all for saving space, when you actually take the time to look at the unreasonable amount of effort involved in this request that would only benefit a handful of jobs, and how you'd implement it and so forth, it just seems like an impossibility unless you're willing to wait 3-7 Years for it... If Cait Sith, who already has Attack Animations, Bloodpacts, and so forth, has taken over a year and still has no signs of being implemented, this type of system will be on back log long after you guys die of old age.

Anyway, this is fun, so here's some more unrealistically high-in-text examples of why this system is absurd.

SCH body:
HP+24 MP+42 INT+15 MND+15 M.acc +11 M.Atk +11
Healing Magic Skill+9
Enhancing Magic Skill +9
"magic Defense Bonus" +8
MP Recovered While Healing +5
Enhances "Addendum: White"
Enhances "Addendum: Black"
Enhances "Dark Arts"
Enhances "Sublimation"
Enhances "Elightenment"
Set: Augments Grimoire"

RDM Body:
MP+76 AGI+6 INT+12 MND+18
Magic Accuracy +10
Spell interruption rate down 12%
Enfeebling magic skill +15
MP recovered while healing +5
Adds "Refresh" effect
Enhances enfeebling magic effect
Healing magic skill +15
Enhancing magic skill +15
Enhances "Fast Cast" effect
Enhances "Chainspell"
Set: Augments "Composure"

Edit: I should mention the idea isn't inherently bad, if not a little unrealistic and silly, Its just... well... nearly impossible, and even if you pick and chose which bonuses make it to the AF4 you still get an incredibly complex system that will at best save you a few inventory spaces.

[Daemon]

I can fully understand why they didn't want to increase the Maximum number of Merit WS obtainable by any number. Its true, We're incorrigible when it comes to this "Universal armor/weapon" Crap. I was never a fan of the "If they give us this, people will whine for that" excuse, but seriously I understand it now.

There's like, 3-4 Jobs out of all of them that would benefit from a Universal AF4, and even of them there would only be about 1-2 exceptionally worth-while pieces per job of those three, and they'll be Mage jobs. It seems like a largely unrealistic goal for the current Dev team and beyond that seems largely ineffective

You're essentially asking them to dump numerous man-hours into saving you a few inventory space and macro slots. While inventory is stupid tight, You're looking at maybe realistically 3 cleared inventory spaces based on your job if you combined A/R/E armors. I think they're going to need a d*mn good argument for this outside of "I'm anal about useless stats so I need to carry around my THF AF Vest at all times for the hide Bonus, it should be on my AF4!!", cause most of the bonuses on AF/Relic are negligable to crap, with such few gems in them for so few jobs this whole concept seems dead from the get go.

Not to mention the 4 category limit on Armor, and If they added the rest to Augments the f**king armor itself would look like a book by the end of it all. Further, how would they make this armor or obtain it? You wouldn't be thinking some practical yet challenging right? I bet it was something like "Get all 4 Pieces and trade them to a magian moogle and its combined and done!".

Are you going to include Augmented Relic+2 Stats on these sets? Are you going to include special bonuses from AF+1 that AF didn't have? (i.E Trick Attack Bonus on AF+1 Hands for THF). If so, do you people really just don't see how Impossible and improbable this would all be? Do you not understand how broken a pair of AF4 gloves for THF would be? I mean, Assuming they're not Item Level 120+ You're looking at.

HP+10 STR+8 DEX+11 CHR+7
Acc+21 Attack+16 EVA+9 Enmity+5
Treasure Hunter +2
"Steal" +1
Enhances "Trick Attack"
Enhances "Sneak Attack"
Enhances "Perfect Dodge"
Set: Augments "Triple Attack"

While it doesn't seem far and beyond to OP'd compared to recent armor, Theres far too many categories on there, And thats not even the most text worthy one, and its excluding Bonuses from the NQ versions of AF/Relic... I mean, if you delve into RDM or SCH or WHM or hell even MNK, You get into like 9-10 Lines of text for 1 piece of armor, Not only is it well above the 4 Category limit, if you add the rest on the Augments, How will you get the Augments? What will be decided as Augment or Base Stats? Will they combined 1 by one and they have to go in a specific order and have to code a+1/+2/+3/+3augmented Piece just to obtain all the stats on them?

So on and so forth, This isn't as easy as slapping +5 Stats and +2 Affinity for Magic and calling it a day... It would be much more complex, and horrifically time consuming if it was even possible to accomplish.

While I'm all for saving space, when you actually take the time to look at the unreasonable amount of effort involved in this request that would only benefit a handful of jobs, and how you'd implement it and so forth, it just seems like an impossibility unless you're willing to wait 3-7 Years for it... If Cait Sith, who already has Attack Animations, Bloodpacts, and so forth, has taken over a year and still has no signs of being implemented, this type of system will be on back log long after you guys die of old age.

Anyway, this is fun, so here's some more unrealistically high-in-text examples of why this system is absurd.

SCH body:
HP+24 MP+42 INT+15 MND+15 M.acc +11 M.Atk +11
Healing Magic Skill+9
Enhancing Magic Skill +9
"magic Defense Bonus" +8
MP Recovered While Healing +5
Enhances "Addendum: White"
Enhances "Addendum: Black"
Enhances "Dark Arts"
Enhances "Sublimation"
Enhances "Elightenment"
Set: Augments Grimoire"

RDM Body:
MP+76 AGI+6 INT+12 MND+18
Magic Accuracy +10
Spell interruption rate down 12%
Enfeebling magic skill +15
MP recovered while healing +5
Adds "Refresh" effect
Enhances enfeebling magic effect
Healing magic skill +15
Enhancing magic skill +15
Enhances "Fast Cast" effect
Enhances "Chainspell"
Set: Augments "Composure"

Edit: I should mention the idea isn't inherently bad, if not a little unrealistic and silly, Its just... well... nearly impossible, and even if you pick and chose which bonuses make it to the AF4 you still get an incredibly complex system that will at best save you a few inventory spaces.

Tamaxchi has 11 stats on it. Redmage body according to your example has 12. Difference is, people would have to do all AF quests including AF2 relic exp trial from what I suggested.

My idea is not that complex. It's a simple idea suggested as a way to overcome one big obstacle that us current end game players face.

Inventory Space. Macros?

While items such as Tamaxchi are constantly being added, SE really hasn't addressed our inventory problems. Maybe WHM won't have to carry around Arka IV for cure potency, it still takes up space in regards to jobs who still need to carry staff like soothsayer for MAB.

Issue is SE cannot raise inventory cap above 80. Some jobs like RDM require way too many sets compared to DD, we have gear that enhances not only skill, but elements. Hence why scholar or redmages need Apamajas II for stun.

So to say only mage jobs would benefit from this, well it's not our fault that our spells can't land without the need of gear.

Something SE "could" correct if they weren't so stingy on giving us power. But then they wouldn't want us to be strong enough to solo on our own so keeping us on a tight leash so we are forced to depend on others to progress...

If any player took the time to earn items, do quests or whatever the requirement needed to obtain the pieces, the reality is, the accomplishment was made.

Absurd? I think what's absurd is having to carry several AF sets, leaving some pieces because we just cannot hold it, even though we earned them only to be left with the choice of which item we need the most. What's also absurd is that some of these pieces are only used for 1 stat.

How many gear sets are needed for survival? Accuracy? You would think at 99, we wouldn't need to carry so much gear to make the job actually work.

I just think its getting ridiculous having to spend more than 20 minutes going through storages, moogle slips, every single time we decide to change jobs for the event we are joining.

How many people main a certain job only to be asked to switch over to another all because the party you are asking for an invite doesn't need your job?

Already SoA content is starting to overshadow AF by releasing new equipment more powerful. How long before AF becomes irrelevant? Only reason we still use AF is for the stats that enhance job specific abilities. It's sad that AF is slowing becoming "ONLY" needed for those enhancements and nothing else.

And Chatoyant staff is the perfect example of saving inventory for those who do not want to carry all other staves.

[Karbuncle]

Tamaxchi has 11 stats on it. Redmage body according to your example has 12. Difference is, people would have to do all AF quests including AF2 relic exp trial from what I suggested.

Tamaxhi has 11 Stats yes, But most fall into Similar Categories. HP/MPStats, Skill+, and Macc/matk/eva/def/etc category, and lastly Cure potency... It pretty much lands flat on the "4 Category Limit", which is good. The items above, Break above and beyond those Categorical limits. Theres a difference between number of stats, and Category of said stats. This was described and explained when the first mention of adding Set bonuses to AF/Relic was mentioned when Empyrean+2 was released.

While each and every category isn't well defined, We can deduct from pieces like Tamaxchi and Kirin's osode that some things fall into certain categories.

HP/MP/Attributes = 1
Acc/atk/eva/etc = 1
Skill+ = 1
Special Effects Likely harbor their own special categories. Meaning each Special Effect ("Enhances xxx") is in its own category. Maybe some exception being perhaps "enhances resists" all fall into 1 category, but we can't be entirely sure, So I'd like to say Maybe adding a few "enhances" won't bust 4 Cat limit, But the chances are more for it breaking it than against. it.

My idea is not that complex. It's a simple idea suggested as a way to overcome one big obstacle that us current end game players face.

Not complex on paper, very very complex in Coding and creating, especially if it was created through the "BY YOUR POWERS COMBINED, I AM AF4" method mentioned.

Issue is SE cannot raise inventory cap above 80. Some jobs like RDM require way too many sets compared to DD, we have gear that enhances not only skill, but elements. Hence why scholar or redmages need Apamajas II for stun.

So to say only mage jobs would benefit from this, well it's not our fault that our spells can't land without the need of gear.

True, But condensing AF/Relic/Emp into 1 piece isn't going to free up a great deal of space for the time it'd take to invest in implementing it... I mean at absolutely BEST CASE scenario its 10 Inventory spaces cleared up, thats if you happen to use every single piece of all 3 Sets, which will then be reduced from 15, to 5.

I'd rather them find a universal cure for our Inventory problems rather than a temporary fix for some jobs. Is that not logical? off the top of my head, I can't quite think of a direct example but it does not mean such a thing is non-existant.

Chatoyant and ending quotes

I understand it sucks gearing up a Mage job or a AF/Relic/Emp heavy job, But again, This is kinda the field that comes with being a Mage... Also, not that this is explained a bit better, I ask you go and answer a few of my concerns if possible.

How would you overcome the 4 Category Limit? (now that I spelled out what it is)
Would you add Augmented Relic +2?
Bonuses from AF, AF+1, Relic, Relic+1, and Relic+2, and Empyrean+2 Including the Set Bonuses?
Would it be pick and chose? If so, Who picks, Us or Square Enix?

This a lot more complex and difficult that it sounds on paper, sad truth, you're asking for quite a large amount of effort to but put into this inventory saver that only effects a handful of jobs at best, and sure while i hate gearing up RDM, lets not exaggerate, realistically you need maybe 1-2 Pieces of Relic or AF each, which is like 3 more clicks. for SCH and later jobs where you have to cycle through all the relic etc, it sucks... I know, But sucky enough to devote time and effort into creating Captain Pl--- AF 4, Rather than looking for a universal solution to gear issues?

I think I'd take cycling through Storage slips if it meant I could macro In and out pieces of armor from my Satchel/Sack like certain plug ins allow you to do... While if they added AF4 I wouldn't protest it, It just seems unrealistic at best, and impossible at worst.

[OmnysValefor]

Added it up, due to delve armor and bayld armor, I'm -25 slots. Only piece I've felt comfortable dropping is Ballerines.

Nasty.

NVM, I didn't even think of counting Asperity necklace, K'yares ring, 2 DA earrings, 1 DW earring (yeah I didn't get the other), 2 M.acc earring, the tathlum.. and there are probably others I'm forgetting but that's -32 not counting naakual drops (the weapons usually allowed me to drop something else).

[Daemon]

Tamaxhi has 11 Stats yes, But most fall into Similar Categories. HP/MPStats, Skill+, and Macc/matk/eva/def/etc category, and lastly Cure potency... It pretty much lands flat on the "4 Category Limit", which is good. The items above, Break above and beyond those Categorical limits. Theres a difference between number of stats, and Category of said stats. This was described and explained when the first mention of adding Set bonuses to AF/Relic was mentioned when Empyrean+2 was released.

While each and every category isn't well defined, We can deduct from pieces like Tamaxchi and Kirin's osode that some things fall into certain categories.

HP/MP/Attributes = 1
Acc/atk/eva/etc = 1
Skill+ = 1
Special Effects Likely harbor their own special categories. Meaning each Special Effect ("Enhances xxx") is in its own category. Maybe some exception being perhaps "enhances resists" all fall into 1 category, but we can't be entirely sure, So I'd like to say Maybe adding a few "enhances" won't bust 4 Cat limit, But the chances are more for it breaking it than against. it.



Not complex on paper, very very complex in Coding and creating, especially if it was created through the "BY YOUR POWERS COMBINED, I AM AF4" method mentioned.



True, But condensing AF/Relic/Emp into 1 piece isn't going to free up a great deal of space for the time it'd take to invest in implementing it... I mean at absolutely BEST CASE scenario its 10 Inventory spaces cleared up, thats if you happen to use every single piece of all 3 Sets, which will then be reduced from 15, to 5.

I'd rather them find a universal cure for our Inventory problems rather than a temporary fix for some jobs. Is that not logical? off the top of my head, I can't quite think of a direct example but it does not mean such a thing is non-existant.



I understand it sucks gearing up a Mage job or a AF/Relic/Emp heavy job, But again, This is kinda the field that comes with being a Mage... Also, not that this is explained a bit better, I ask you go and answer a few of my concerns if possible.

How would you overcome the 4 Category Limit? (now that I spelled out what it is)
Would you add Augmented Relic +2?
Bonuses from AF, AF+1, Relic, Relic+1, and Relic+2, and Empyrean+2 Including the Set Bonuses?
Would it be pick and chose? If so, Who picks, Us or Square Enix?

This a lot more complex and difficult that it sounds on paper, sad truth, you're asking for quite a large amount of effort to but put into this inventory saver that only effects a handful of jobs at best, and sure while i hate gearing up RDM, lets not exaggerate, realistically you need maybe 1-2 Pieces of Relic or AF each, which is like 3 more clicks. for SCH and later jobs where you have to cycle through all the relic etc, it sucks... I know, But sucky enough to devote time and effort into creating Captain Pl--- AF 4, Rather than looking for a universal solution to gear issues?

I think I'd take cycling through Storage slips if it meant I could macro In and out pieces of armor from my Satchel/Sack like certain plug ins allow you to do... While if they added AF4 I wouldn't protest it, It just seems unrealistic at best, and impossible at worst.

If SE can implement new categories like Monstrosity, what's to say they can't add a new Catagory for Augments or enhancements? What do I mean by this? We have job trait Catagory. In my opinion, making an AF4 would still be good by combining stats to make AF on par with SoA content but for enhancements and augments they could add a new Catagory like job traits that require equipment be worn in order for those to become active.

I know coding is not easy. Neither is limitations. But eventually something has to be done because after 11 years, adding new stuff isn't answering any issues we are facing now at end game, it's further making it difficult to decide what to keep and what to throw out or leave out.

Also as I said before, AF is is heading in the direction of only becoming useful for its enhancements, not its stats. Sooner or later, everyone won't even be using AF in the direction SE is taking us.

Personally I love gear that makes our job look the part. Why would any job want to look the same? Problem is new items are looking better than AF when I think it should be the other way around.

[Daemon]

Added it up, due to delve armor and bayld armor, I'm -25 slots. Only piece I've felt comfortable dropping is Ballerines.

Nasty.

NVM, I didn't even think of counting Asperity necklace, K'yares ring, 2 DA earrings, 1 DW earring (yeah I didn't get the other), 2 M.acc earring, the tathlum.. and there are probably others I'm forgetting but that's -32 not counting naakual drops (the weapons usually allowed me to drop something else).

I wonder how many gear sets, Augmented gears, AF sets, weapons REM/Magian, Accessories, capes belts gorgets, meds and other items on top of that you carry per event?

And this is the main purpose of desperately trying to suggest fixes for our never ending problems with inventory.

[Siviard]

You know....maybe the Development Team is already in the process of making AF4 for the 20 jobs as we speak? I mean, just look at the JSE Capes that came out in the July update.

Lifestream Cape (GEO) and Evasionist's Cape (RUN) for example. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if their AF sets were called that as well. I agree some of the names of the new Capes seem pretty confusing for the jobs. Like Dispersal Mantle (PUP), and Cornflower Cape (BLU) for example. What's up with those names? Doesn't make a whole lot of sense. But THEN you see these others with names that are so obvious it just screams "possible new AF sets". Ones like Mauler's Mantle (WAR), Rhapsode's Cape (BRD), Toetapper Mantle (DNC), Mending Cape (WHM), Gunsliger's Cape (COR) and Bookworm's Cape (SCH).

Also, keep in mind that AF "accessories" were lower level items. Look at the Relic sets as an example. The armors are 71-75, but the accessories (from dreamland zones) are 70. These Capes/Mantles are 99 but do not have the iLvl thing on the bottom right of the stat window. This leads me to believe (theorize) there's a possibility that there will be new AF sets for all 22 jobs, not just AF for GEO and RUN, and that they released one of the accessories (back piece) for these new AF sets in the July update with more possible accessories (possibly a waist slot item) coming in the August update.

AGAIN, this is all theory on my part. But when you seriously stop to think about it, it makes sense.

[Daemon]

You know....maybe the Development Team is already in the process of making AF4 for the 20 jobs as we speak? I mean, just look at the JSE Capes that came out in the July update.

Lifestream Cape (GEO) and Evasionist's Cape (RUN) for example. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if their AF sets were called that as well. I agree some of the names of the new Capes seem pretty confusing for the jobs. Like Dispersal Mantle (PUP), and Cornflower Cape (BLU) for example. What's up with those names? Doesn't make a whole lot of sense. But THEN you see these others with names that are so obvious it just screams "possible new AF sets". Ones like Mauler's Mantle (WAR), Rhapsode's Cape (BRD), Toetapper Mantle (DNC), Mending Cape (WHM), Gunsliger's Cape (COR) and Bookworm's Cape (SCH).

Also, keep in mind that AF "accessories" were lower level items. Look at the Relic sets as an example. The armors are 71-75, but the accessories (from dreamland zones) are 70. These Capes/Mantles are 99 but do not have the iLvl thing on the bottom right of the stat window. This leads me to believe (theorize) there's a possibility that there will be new AF sets for all 22 jobs, not just AF for GEO and RUN, and that they released one of the accessories (back piece) for these new AF sets in the July update with more possible accessories (possibly a waist slot item) coming in the August update.

AGAIN, this is all theory on my part. But when you seriously stop to think about it, it makes sense.

Which would add yet another set of gear to carry around If that's true... >.>