possible oversight with the new ilvl system?

[FrankReynolds]

Look, here's the thing. Before, that warrior could go to the AH or do relatively easy events to get to say 20% haste and still hit the same X hit build. He could probably come within 10% or 15% accuracy of the best war if he tried. He probably took exactly the same amount of damage as the best war unless dude had a d ring.

But if it was two jobs that were 10-15 levels apart lol... not even a chance.

[Jeryhn]

Look, here's the thing. Before, that warrior could go to the AH or do relatively easy events to get to say 20% haste and still hit the same X hit build. He could probably come within 10% or 15% accuracy of the best war if he tried. He probably took exactly the same amount of damage as the best war unless dude had a d ring.

But if it was two jobs that were 10-15 levels apart lol... not even a chance.

I'm... not sure what point you're trying to make. Unless you're agreeing with me or something.

For Adooulin-related content, the tiering goes like this:
1) Do Colonization/Lair Reives and Adoulin assignemnts for Bayld, use Bayld to buy +67 skill weapons and Orvail/Thurandaut/Karieyh sets. Difficulty is roughly equivalent to Campaign battles or completing quests. Alternatively, do Skirmishes for +51 skill weapons. Difficulty is roughly equivalent to Assault battles. (This section counts as your easy tasks you can complete.)
2) Join Tier 1 Wildskeeper Reives with your extra Bayld after acquiring necessities. Also drops +67 skill weapons.
3) Now you have access to host Tier 1 Delve runs. Farm Plasm for +162 skill weapons and Bokwus/Mikinaak/Manibozho sets. Difficulty roughly equivalent to forming a Voidwatch alliance (with a little more necessary coordination). You can also kill new Tier 2 Naakuals for +188 skill weapons.
4) Kill current Delve bosses for +242 skill gear.

As you can see, there is a predefined path to doing things, that go from easy things you can complete solo, to small- or full-man party, to content that eventually leads up to alliance-level coordination.

[FrankReynolds]

I'm... not sure what point you're trying to make. Unless you're agreeing with me or something.

You said gear has always been the main means of progression and used (I'm assuming a 75) Warrior as an example (completely ignoring that back when leveling / meriting took months / years, it was a far more important / tangible form of progression than the meager stats on the gear). I simply pointed out why the current form of gear progression is actually not very similar at all.

[Hayward]

I'm... not sure what point you're trying to make. Unless you're agreeing with me or something.

For Adooulin-related content, the tiering goes like this:
1) Do Colonization/Lair Reives and Adoulin assignemnts for Bayld, use Bayld to buy +67 skill weapons and Orvail/Thurandaut/Karieyh sets. Difficulty is roughly equivalent to Campaign battles or completing quests. Alternatively, do Skirmishes for +51 skill weapons. Difficulty is roughly equivalent to Assault battles. (This section counts as your easy tasks you can complete.)
2) Join Tier 1 Wildskeeper Reives with your extra Bayld after acquiring necessities. Also drops +67 skill weapons.
3) Now you have access to host Tier 1 Delve runs. Farm Plasm for +162 skill weapons and Bokwus/Mikinaak/Manibozho sets. Difficulty roughly equivalent to forming a Voidwatch alliance (with a little more necessary coordination). You can also kill new Tier 2 Naakuals for +188 skill weapons.
4) Kill current Delve bosses for +242 skill gear.

As you can see, there is a predefined path to doing things, that go from easy things you can complete solo, to small- or full-man party, to content that eventually leads up to alliance-level coordination.

Those steps would have been valid had Wildskeeper Reives and Skirmishes been allowed to take root and/or Delve restricted to possessing the gear you mentioned. What's happening now is that people are paying gil to skip steps 2 and (oftentimes) 3 and get the Delve weapons. I'm sure you've seen the /yells yourself that people only want DPS jobs with Delve weapons to do Delve. Explain the logic in that because there's no way that should be remotely justifiable.

[FrankReynolds]

It has also taken the game from:
"You can get exp. solo, but if you team up with 5 other people it will go faster" to
-> "You can get exp. in a six man party, but if you form an alliance it will go faster" to
--> "You can't do this limit break quest without 18 of the best geared players on your server".

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Aside from teh point that it completely screws over bst, there's nothing too wrong with the lvl system.

[Jeryhn]

Stating that leveling up used to take longer and was thus the main barometer of character progression is a bit of a misnomer because not all jobs earned EXP at quite the same rate when non-Abyssea partying was the only thing available. Moreover that statement hasn't really been true since about 2006 when people realized that chaining T-VT mobs was more effective than bringing a full tank and turtling up on IT mobs... An advancement that was only made possible by, get ready because here it comes, increasing amounts of Haste being featured on gear.

Not to mention the only things you gained when leveling up were attributes and additional abilities or spells. Here's the concept: when everyone gets the same exact thing, that is not growth or advancement. That is simply everyone getting the same thing, i.e. stagnation.

[FrankReynolds]

Stating that leveling up used to take longer and was thus the main barometer of character progression is a bit of a misnomer because not all jobs earned EXP at quite the same rate when non-Abyssea partying was the only thing available.

Right, but leveling was still the largest part of the job. Getting end game gear had nowhere near the effect and usually took a lot less time with the exception of a few items with really crappy drop rates, and those items weren't necessary foir entrance into any other content. You could do end game event A without having obtained any drops from end game event B.

Moreover that statement hasn't really been true since about 2006 when people realized that chaining T-VT mobs was more effective than bringing a full tank and turtling up on IT mobs... An advancement that was only made possible by, get ready because here it comes, increasing amounts of Haste being featured on gear.

I don't think that even now there is a significant amount of haste gear before you hit 75 and I pointed out the relatively small differences between the best gear and the average, easily accessible gear anyways. I never said haste didn't exist.

Not to mention the only things you gained when leveling up were attributes and additional abilities or spells. Here's the concept: when everyone gets the same exact thing, that is not growth or advancement. That is simply everyone getting the same thing, i.e. stagnation.

The amount of various gear and the time consumed obtaining it kept people busy and forced variation and I never said that Exp parties were awesome. Everyone gets the same Oatixurs now. Stagnation.

[Zumi]

People wanting delve weapons for farms is a community issue more then anything. People that play FFXI want the most efficient, easiest route to do stuff.

When the Aug 6th update gets here and all the SoA gear is getting majorly buffed with the new gear system which has a lot more stats on it. I am sure that will help some people out.

[Lordkrys]

People wanting delve weapons for farms is a community issue more then anything. People that play FFXI want the most efficient, easiest route to do stuff.

When the Aug 6th update gets here and all the SoA gear is getting majorly buffed with the new gear system which has a lot more stats on it. I am sure that will help some people out.

I sure hope it helps. For the last six years I've done All end game events on Blu. And Delve comes out and suddenly I get turned down for everything simply because I'm an immortal. Even if I was dual welding delve swords (with I unfortunately have neither) I still don't think people would invite me. It's definitely a problem with the player base.