How long is too long

[Demon6324236]

I understand your point, though some of what you say is a bit incorrect I think. Like for instance your comparison with weakening a monster until we know their tricks. Well, Delve captures that idea, and we use those tricks every fight, some of them are a near must. But at the same time, I have to say, these WK Reives are not the same way, it sounds like Yumcax is similar in the fact he has some kind of regen which can be broken by wind damage, but otherwise, not so much.

I understand your point overall that the players are ignoring it and it is our fault for such a thing, but I do not think we should have all blame in this matter. If Reives themselves were more enjoyable, rewarding, or just generally not such a big time taker which requires so many people, I think we would be ok, but none of those are the case sadly. So while we can take some blame, I think SE is partly to blame as well.

[Siviard]

Here's the simple solution...

Make all Wildskeeper Reives INACTIVE if the Colonization Rate in the zone is below 50%. This will FORCE the player base to participate in Colonization Reives in the areas where Naakuals are located and prevent these 24+ hour marathon sessions I've been hearing so much about.

I've been actively doing a Colonization Reive in Yorcia Weald (it's the only one I can find wandering around that blasted forest) trying to get the rate up. Sadly, I am the ONLY PERSON there, yet there are 70+ others in the zone. Guess where they're at. Yes, another marathon session is going on on Shiva server right now. Coming up on hour #13 if I'm not mistaken, as I saw the first shout for it around 1pm CST this afternoon, and it's nearly 3am now.

***Ninja Edit*** And I've just been MPK'd by a Paladin who claimed the monsters in the Reive and intentionally moved out of range while I was meleeing the roots believing she was still tanking the Reive monsters.

[detlef]

Here's the simple solution...

Make all Wildskeeper Reives INACTIVE if the Colonization Rate in the zone is below 50%. This will FORCE the player base to participate in Colonization Reives in the areas where Naakuals are located and prevent these 24+ hour marathon sessions I've been hearing so much about.

This is not a good idea. On some servers, it simply may not be possible to sustain an adequate colonization rate for a given zone. You're basically locking players out of content. You're saying that Ceizak, Morimar, Hennetiel, Marjami, and Yorcia have to be maintained at 50% colonization rate for all time, otherwise those naakual fights will go the way of Fiat Lux.

The real issue is that it's fine for naakual strength to be inversely proportional to colonization rate. But that strength should manifest itself in terms of stats and hp, not damage taken.

[Siviard]

This is not a good idea. On some servers, it simply may not be possible to sustain an adequate colonization rate for a given zone. You're basically locking players out of content. You're saying that Ceizak, Morimar, Hennetiel, Marjami, and Yorcia have to be maintained at 50% colonization rate for all time, otherwise those naakual fights will go the way of Fiat Lux.

The real issue is that it's fine for naakual strength to be inversely proportional to colonization rate. But that strength should manifest itself in terms of stats and hp, not damage taken.

You make it sound like it's impossible. With that attitude, it will be....

[detlef]

You make it sound like it's impossible. With that attitude, it will be....

No, it really isn't reasonable. Please keep in mind that server populations vary widely and peoples' interests in-game also vary widely. Tell me about your server. Were you able to keep Hennetiel above 50% colonization before Marjami and Yorcia were introduced? Was Shiva somehow immune to players losing interest maintaining bivouacs in Morimar? On Valefor, Marjami is currently at 100% colonization while Yorcia is at 24%. I daresay the only reason Yorcia is even that high is because people are after capes and Marjami is too crowded.

Also, what's with your "attitude" comment? You act as if this is real life and we should all be working together for a common cause. Sorry, but no this is a game which people play for social and entertainment purposes. Banding the whole server together to fight a tree for 4 or 12 hours is not something anybody should have to do in a game. One person is still only one person. In the context of wildskeeper reives, the only way one person makes a difference is by wiping the entire group.

[Edyth]

I wish the Naakuals had "massive" DT like you guys claim. They don't.

Qutrubs have massive DT (damage taken). Naakuals have extremely low DT.

[Vivivivi]

Or, just get rid of the regen for Yumcax, and save it for his delve equivalent? It was my impression that Wildskeeper rieves were designed to be challenging, but also designed in a way where anyone and everyone can jump in and with determination, eventually defeat (in a moderately reasonable amount of time). Thus far, this is actually the case with the other four Naakuls, which I think were designed very well! Some of the most fun battles I took part in were in these other four zones and lasted at shortest 45 minutes, and generally at most 2-3 hours (acceptable in my opinion for these zone boss style fights).

By contrast, it was my understanding that Delve was supposed to be more difficult content that requires extremely well prepared players all following an agreed upon strategy.

THE POINT I AM TRYING TO MAKE HERE:
I'm not opposed to challenging content, Delve is designed with a TIME LIMIT and is easy to repeat with entry items easy to obtain.

Wildskeeper rieves require a costly key item which takes individuals a significant time investment to obtain. Without the ability to homepoint, change jobs to form a better strategy, many players would rather try to stick it out and not waste their effort to get there in the first place, and as a result, we end up with marathons.

An important point in SE's defense I forgot to mention that I feel is important:
This is different than the original Pandemonium Warden in a big way- If PW was left unclaimed it would go away, so people had to actively hold it before Twilight gear existed, which led to unfortunate results.

While yes, technically the Yumcax battle I took part in lasted 27 hours total, there were significant lulls in activity where we all took extended breaks, so for that, I commend SE for at least building that aspect into this system. Also, while ~75k bayld does take time and effort to build, it is nowhere near as difficult as a Pandemondium Key when that was released.

[hiko]

Or, just get rid of the regen for Yumcax, and save it for his delve equivalent? It was my impression that Wildskeeper rieves were designed to be challenging, but also designed in a way where anyone and everyone can jump in and with determination, eventually defeat (in a moderately reasonable amount of time). Thus far, this is actually the case with the other four Naakuls, which I think were designed very well! Some of the most fun battles I took part in were in these other four zones and lasted at shortest 45 minutes, and generally at most 2-3 hours (acceptable in my opinion for these zone boss style fights).

=>WR are designed so people can learn delve boss specials and how to react, counter them
+

Funny thing is, MPKing you lot actually IS a valid tactic. It means you aren't doing things like keeping Yumcax in it's regen state and you actually got time to read the shouts. Yumcax's regen can be countered by dealing wind damage.

It's also possible they were trying to kill the people stuck in the terrain behind the Oops Moogle, so they could be tractored.

I was on a 25% col rate Yumcax that was at 98-100% HP for the first 30 minutes while people were getting into the reive. Then people started shouting in every known language (I swear there even was someone shouting in Klingon) what the tactic was, and it died 3.5 hours later (mostly due to low col rate). If you aren't doing wind damage, you kill adds. If you can't kill adds, you support those that do.



They only last that long if you don't know what you are doing. Which is pretty common at first.

[FrankReynolds]

=>WR are designed so people can learn delve boss specials and how to react, counter them
+

Ahhh... Yeah, 200 people fighting fodder mobs while summoner pets whack away at something big... So that's why we keep losing to tojil. We need another 190 people.

[Umichi]

you know for being six hours... didn't anyone think that they should all leave and focus on colonization rieves? I mean you did know the colonization rate effects damage at the time right?

sure you lose out on a run but in the long run your going to be making it back while also working on your cape.