Aegis and Ochain after August update?

[SpankWustler]

To very, very briefly summarize Martel's test sever findings here:

Steadfast Shield beats out Aegis for physical damage mitigation but falls well behind Killedar Shield and Ochain. Killedar Shield beats out Ochain for overall physical damage mitigation, in spite of a lower block rate, due to mitigating a larger amount of damage per block. It's not hard to infer which shield has the advantage between the two, given Paladin's many options for increasing block rate.

The tests are not on super-duper high level monsters, if that matters.

It is noteworthy that Killedar shield achieved a 100% block rate against one of the low level sets of monsters in the test, indicating the 100% block rate cap is not unique to Ochain (and presumably never has been, but nothing ever added 200-250 skill before).

[OmnysValefor]

That's precisely what I feared lol.

It's good to see other shields being worthwhile SE, but Ochain and Aegis are going to need some love.

Please address this, or at least, comment.

[dasva]

In Aegis' case, Aegis is still king by and far for magic damage, even if it gains no shield skill. Aegischain PLDs don't expect Aegis to block.

I'm not sure how much influence skill has on Ochain, whether or not it has a minimum block value, etc, so it's tough to say.

That's not true. Aegis has a decent block rate and until Ochain came around was the shield used for blocking. The blockrate on aegis is the main thing it has over using a runefencer right now.

Right now skill wont do much for ochain because it already is blocking near 100% of the time without buffs.... while Kiledar get's close enough on hard stuff that it can still acheive that 100% with buffs which are easy to maintain. So now you got 2 shields that will block 100% of the time with one blocking more dmg... adding more blockrate to the one blocking less dmg wont save it unless you make mobs with levels so high that it takes Ochain with a butt load of skill to maintain blockrate. At which point you are right back at the start so why even make a shield that is better at lower level stuff to begin with? Especially when they blatantly said they wouldn't be upgrading shields/instruments because they wouldn't be outclassing them

[Fynlar]

The blockrate on aegis is the main thing it has over using a runefencer right now.

Actually, it's more the fact that Aegis doesn't care what element damage you're taking and, barring encumbrance, is always functioning, whereas RNF's effectiveness is restricted to flimsy JAs.

As stated, Aegis is not reasonably expected to block any appreciable amount of physical damage anymore.

[OmnysValefor]

That's not true. Aegis has a decent block rate and until Ochain came around was the shield used for blocking. The blockrate on aegis is the main thing it has over using a runefencer right now.

Before Ochain, Aegis wasn't just the shield used for blocking. Aegis was just the shield used. It had a great block rate, but when you're used to 90+% (sometimes 100%), you expect 40-65% to fail you when you need it most

Right now skill wont do much for ochain because it already is blocking near 100% of the time without buffs.... while Kiledar get's close enough on hard stuff that it can still acheive that 100% with buffs which are easy to maintain. So now you got 2 shields that will block 100% of the time with one blocking more dmg... adding more blockrate to the one blocking less dmg wont save it unless you make mobs with levels so high that it takes Ochain with a butt load of skill to maintain blockrate. At which point you are right back at the start so why even make a shield that is better at lower level stuff to begin with? Especially when they blatantly said they wouldn't be upgrading shields/instruments because they wouldn't be outclassing them

They never said they won't be outclassing shields/instruments, it's just that, at that point, they hadn't. RME upgrades weren't part of their intentions either. It took them something like two weeks to even formulate a reply to how they'd address RME.

We might fight the new delve trash/bosses and find that Killedar needs the 200 skill just to block at a 60% rate. Trash in new delve might be level 115, we don't know. Ochain might need 200 skill as well.

It might not.

As I said before, I'm fine with att/defense needing to grow, I'm surprised that that they chose the route of acc/evasion / m.acc/evasion and the same stats for monsters needing to grow so high. It only causes them to start creating gear that, before long, might rival some people's previous entire ws sets.

[OmnysValefor]

Nothin' to see here but a shameless bump.

Please give us an update SE.

[OmnysValefor]

Bump.

I'm still curious what/if SE intends to do anything about Aegis/Ochain in the fabled REM update.

[Babekeke]

Bump.

I'm still curious what/if SE intends to do anything about Aegis/Ochain in the fabled REM update.

Higher block rate means fewer interrupts to casting, which is still important against the highest tier mobs, so Ochain is not useless by any means, and doesn't need an update.

And still Aegis is THE BEST TOOL IN THE GAME for magic damage mitigation.

[OmnysValefor]

No need for caps.

Aegis is still the best tool. It will probably have floored blocking against new delve NMs, but to be practical, paladins don't really get to fight NMs, but shield-swapping is a thing (whether it be Ochain/Aegis or Killedar/Aegis).

The thing people aren't understanding is that shield skill does influence ochain's blocking and that anything that requires 650~ shield skill might really hurt Ochain. It might not, it's tough to say. New fodder could even be high-level.

The only ones that know at the moment is SE, and that's why I'm asking them.

If I need to have a Killedar, I'll have one, but just like all the other RME owners, I want my time invested into them to matter.

[Damane]

No need for caps.

Aegis is still the best tool. It will probably have floored blocking against new delve NMs, but to be practical, paladins don't really get to fight NMs, but shield-swapping is a thing (whether it be Ochain/Aegis or Killedar/Aegis).

The thing people aren't understanding is that shield skill does influence ochain's blocking and that anything that requires 650~ shield skill might really hurt Ochain. It might not, it's tough to say. New fodder could even be high-level.

The only ones that know at the moment is SE, and that's why I'm asking them.

If I need to have a Killedar, I'll have one, but just like all the other RME owners, I want my time invested into them to matter.

considering only lvl 99 REMs are getting the update I see alot of butthurt going on on 90 ochains if it gets useless withotu being 99 to gain the skill+ :X, but alas its peoples own fault for not getting the shield up to 99 for the job they love!