Devs this is completely unacceptable

[FrankReynolds]

Edit: There's also an inventory crisis I'm having lol...

Yeah, that and the Macros. All those staves and all those macros... ugghhh.

[Anjou]

So to sum this all up:

Summoner: SE please it's just a simple addition of an existing dat file into the battle system/adding abilties, HP/MP to them. This should not have taken years to do, and it's stupid that people have to wait this long.

Red Mage: Needs a little more 'mmf' to them, I mean it -is- considered a jack of all trades, but tbh it's been lacking in a few areas of late.

Blue Mage: (Don't even get me started) Some issues with this job, some spells need to be fixed, some debuffs need to be able to stick a little better or they aren't even worth setting. In terms of physical spells, Barbed Crescent and of course Quadrastrike (imo at least) were huge let downs, make Quadra almost if not more powerful than Quad continuum, since Quadra is a higher level, and also has more MP cost than Quad Continuum.

[Rwolf]

One of the real issues is the communication. Even if the Development Team and Matsui decided to go into another direction with Summoner, then say and explain the prior projects are dead. There's no legitimate reason to just ignore the player base after not only stating that Summoner is receiving something but going through the motions to make a quick .dat swap video of it.

Quoting Matsui on his recent post in Item Levels, on one of his many repeats on stating they will improve communication:

I feel that the development team has a tendency to prioritize implementation over communication in order to meet deadlines. Going forward, I've taken steps to ensure that they place the same amount of importance on properly communicating information to users as they do for implementation. I'll continue to repeat this and make sure we are thorough.

There is also too much focus on projects no one asked for. Leaving projects that they were planning on working on for years left untouched, and worst not communicated as to if they are still in development and why it has not been implemented yet. They would be doing themselves a huge favor and the player base a great service to just flat out grab the old list of promises (not ideas) and just say in a list if they are still on the table.

Whenever I see someone complaining that someone is bringing up a concern, I wonder if they realize this isn't a typical forum on some random fan website. It's the official forum, which they specifically set up to get player feedback. If it's annoying to read player feedback, then stop looking in a forum dedicated to feedback. >_> Just as FFXI is diverse in what players goals/interests are, there will always be players who complain about something you don't care about in the game.

Dead horse or not, they could stand to communicate better.

[Peepiopi]

where are the things we've been promised years ago? such as the 2 new avatars and new meritable 1hr abilities? you've been holding back the information for far too long and have annoyed so many people! can we get an answer to this please? this isnt a free to play game and we demand that you answer our simple questions!

Demand... lol. Thats cute.

[Babekeke]

Some of us may argue that us Red Mages deserve attention before you Summoners. I mean when was the last time we had any new spells added compared to you guys getting Odin, Alex and the new delve item?

Odin and Alex were level 75, from ToAU.

Every spell that RDM has received since lvl 76 was introduced is more recent than Odin/Alex. You may not like Temper and Grav 2, but they're newer than SMN has had.

[Daemon]

Odin and Alex were level 75, from ToAU.

Every spell that RDM has received since lvl 76 was introduced is more recent than Odin/Alex. You may not like Temper and Grav 2, but they're newer than SMN has had.

Yeah but SMN got new Delve item. Again like I said before since SoA release, the only think we got isn't new. They only gave us our ability to enfeeble. We got placed on Orvail set >.> which is pure Magery.

[Mokeil]

Again like I said before since SoA release, the only think we got isn't new. They only gave us our ability to enfeeble. We got placed on Orvail set >.> which is pure Magery.

Let me preface this with the following disclaimer: I think there are a handful of jobs that need some love, not just SMN; RDM is definitely among them.

But, seriously... What do you think that delve item does for us Summoners? It doesn't boost our Wards so that more than six of them are useful. It doesn't remove the stifling 45 second hard cap on our Blood Pacts. It doesn't make it so that Favor is worth using outside of a few, very niche uses. It does nothing to fix any of the actual problems with the job. The only thing it gave us is the ability to do decent spike damage on too slow a scale to actually be useful for any of today's fast-paced events. Which is exactly what Summoner had before.

And, since you brought it up, guess who else got placed on the Orvail set? At least that set does something for RDM, even if it's a part of the job that perhaps didn't need the boost as much as other parts did. However, it does nothing useful for SMN at all.

Yeah but SMN got new Delve item.

Really? And Red Mage got nothing, huh? You do know RDM can equip both of the new Delve swords, right? Yea, OK, it still doesn't actually fix any of the problems inherent in a RDM trying to melee (example: lack of melee based armor that would actually give you the Acc/Att/etc needed to melee usefully)...

But as I said above, that's really all SMN got with their new item, too. All that recent item did was help us catch back up to where we were (relatively speaking) before Adoulin came along. It's a nice boost, but we - Summer and Red Mage both - are still just as far behind the curve as we ever were.

[Daemon]

Let me preface this with the following disclaimer: I think there are a handful of jobs that need some love, not just SMN; RDM is definitely among them.

But, seriously... What do you think that delve item does for us Summoners? It doesn't boost our Wards so that more than six of them are useful. It doesn't remove the stifling 45 second hard cap on our Blood Pacts. It doesn't make it so that Favor is worth using outside of a few, very niche uses. It does nothing to fix any of the actual problems with the job. The only thing it gave us is the ability to do decent spike damage on too slow a scale to actually be useful for any of today's fast-paced events. Which is exactly what Summoner had before.

And, since you brought it up, guess who else got placed on the Orvail set? At least that set does something for RDM, even if it's a part of the job that perhaps didn't need the boost as much as other parts did. However, it does nothing useful for SMN at all.



Really? And Red Mage got nothing, huh? You do know RDM can equip both of the new Delve swords, right? Yea, OK, it still doesn't actually fix any of the problems inherent in a RDM trying to melee (example: lack of melee based armor that would actually give you the Acc/Att/etc needed to melee usefully)...

But as I said above, that's really all SMN got with their new item, too. All that recent item did was help us catch back up to where we were (relatively speaking) before Adoulin came along. It's a nice boost, but we - Summer and Red Mage both - are still just as far behind the curve as we ever were.

Ok cool I like this. You are debating but I like how your approach is better than previous encounters I've had with others.

I do agree that Summoner needs attention too. However, Delve item does make a difference in Pet Level and survivability. You do know that the #1 Area for Summoner is Walk of the Echoes. It is the best money making area in game with no limits except the 45 minute battle time in which everyone will be booted out if Boss has not been defeated. Summoner has the ability to rule over all other jobs now and can earn a higher amount of exp and qualify for max drops.

To compare your example of 45 second Bloodpact Vs Beastmaster Pet TP gain would be similar however Summoner Abilty attack is much more powerful than Beastmaster TP move.

Beastmaster also has a cruel 5 minute recast time on Call beast and consumes 1 Jug Vs Summoner who does not require any item to summon a pet.

As for Summoner and Orvail set, you do have MP augments that can give you a total of 320 additional MP total, higher Defense. Do know that high MND is potency for cure and WHM spell enfeebles. INT is for Elemental/Enfeebles.

Depending on which Subjob you use Orvails does make a difference also being that it has high Magic Accuracy. So to say this is totally useless would be doubtful.

Defense +174
Magic Accuracy +27
MP recovered while healing +4
Enmity -14
MND +46
INT +49
CHR +47
Adds "Refresh" effect
Enhances "Fast Cast" effect

Maybe this does not do anything to help your role as a Summoner, but I'm sure this would better help make a difference with your support jobs which focusing on both main and sub as a whole can make an overall difference.

Summoner also gets Yaskomo's Pole (SMN Only) which gives DMG 150 compared to 145 DMG using Soothsayer Staff available to other jobs. Do know one very powerful merit WS is Shattersoul which is INT base WS therefore also complements using Orvail. New items like Heartseeker and Steelflash earring gives Accuracy, Dudgeon and Bladborn Earring earring, Asperity Neckalace for Attack, Dashavatara which brings your pets power, evasion, defense etc to level 113.

Summoners have the ability to be a powerful soloist.

Much more powerful than Beastmaster now.

And yes, what's the purpose of having Delve sword if we lack the gear for the Melee aspect of the job?

Now my issue with RDM is that we were shunned out of the game when Resist/Completely resist hoarded most of the content putting Redmage in mommys pink stiletto shoe box thrown in the back garage buried, decades of dust collected and to the point of no recognition. Ok maybe I exaggerated a bit but yeah it was pretty bad.

Temper was cool until SE gave multitudes of jobs double/Triple/Quadruple attack gears. Shame, now temper isn't that special but before that..

Watering down almost the majority of our trade mark abilities and spells by allowing everyone to use dispel, refresh 1, Enspell tier 1s, Gravity and phalanx. To add insult to injury SE also allowed Fast cast, Convert useable through sub.

So where are we now today in this age? Given back our intended ability to Enfeeble yet Jack of all trades has been long outdated in today's fast pace environment where we are more like a slacker whose not really great at most things other than enhancing ourselves for solo and enfeebling.

[Mokeil]

To compare your example of 45 second Bloodpact Vs Beastmaster Pet TP gain would be similar however Summoner Abilty attack is much more powerful than Beastmaster TP move.

Beastmaster also has a cruel 5 minute recast time on Call beast and consumes 1 Jug Vs Summoner who does not require any item to summon a pet.

Summoner Vs. Beastmaster is a whole different arguement!

Now, I'll admit I don't know how BST stands now that they've gotten their delve thing, too, but we were fairly even in most things before hand. SMN had undeniably better damage spikes, but BST had the better DoT... SMN could simply re-summon at need, but BST pets had 5 times the HP, a JA that lets them heal any of their pets, and a JA that lets them pawn off all hate onto their pets... It sort of balanced out.

Now, I don't know. I haven't really poked at their forums since the update. However, even if SMN is in a better position now than BST, it doesn't change the fact that SMN still has some pretty fundamental problems. It just means that BST has problems and needs some Developer Love, too.

Maybe this does not do anything to help your role as a Summoner, but I'm sure this would better help make a difference with your support jobs which focusing on both main and sub as a whole can make an overall difference.

That's just it, Orvail gear does nothing to help our main job. None of those pieces boost avatar performance, and we'll swap off of them the second we pull out an avatar. When that happens, the extra MP from the augments disappears, making that part useless, too.

And yes, what's the purpose of having Delve sword if we lack the gear for the Melee aspect of the job?

Sorry, reading back over what I wrote, I guess I didn't make my point clear enough. I suppose I did spread it out between two different quites. Let me see if I can do better...

Red Mage got something that gives them a boost in melee power, without actually doing anything to address the fact that Red Mage has some seriously fundamental problems that keep them from being able to melee. Likewise, Summoner got something that gives them a boost in avatar power, without actually doing anything to address the fact that our avatars have some seriously fundamental limitations, too.

Both jobs have gotten something, but ultimately that something merely helps us both to catch back up to the back of the line - right back up to where we were when Adoulin just came out (and before Delve). We both still have our problems that need to be addressed before we can actually perform well.

Now my issue with RDM...

A good summary of where RDM stands now! I agree with you on all those points. Especially on the point about things being sub-able. Red Mage just felt like it lost part of its identity once everyone got access to most of their tricks. And I have no clue why they're not on any of the new melee gear. I figured they'd be a shoe-in for Thurandaut, at least.

I suppose, ultimately, the point I was trying to make in my previous post is that while Summoner got a fancy new item, it really doesn't do anything for us, and we're more or less in the same boat as all the other neglected jobs - of which I'd say SMN, RDM, and BST are firmly in that category. All the neglected jobs have been getting are temp patches that sort of help them limp along just a little while longer. (I'd have added BLU to that list of neglected jobs, but I think BLU is actually slated to get the Love it needs in August. Time will tell for them.)

[Daemon]

Summoner Vs. Beastmaster is a whole different arguement!

Now, I'll admit I don't know how BST stands now that they've gotten their delve thing, too, but we were fairly even in most things before hand. SMN had undeniably better damage spikes, but BST had the better DoT... SMN could simply re-summon at need, but BST pets had 5 times the HP, a JA that lets them heal any of their pets, and a JA that lets them pawn off all hate onto their pets... It sort of balanced out.

Now, I don't know. I haven't really poked at their forums since the update. However, even if SMN is in a better position now than BST, it doesn't change the fact that SMN still has some pretty fundamental problems. It just means that BST has problems and needs some Developer Love, too.




That's just it, Orvail gear does nothing to help our main job. None of those pieces boost avatar performance, and we'll swap off of them the second we pull out an avatar. When that happens, the extra MP from the augments disappears, making that part useless, too.




Sorry, reading back over what I wrote, I guess I didn't make my point clear enough. I suppose I did spread it out between two different quites. Let me see if I can do better...

Red Mage got something that gives them a boost in melee power, without actually doing anything to address the fact that Red Mage has some seriously fundamental problems that keep them from being able to melee. Likewise, Summoner got something that gives them a boost in avatar power, without actually doing anything to address the fact that our avatars have some seriously fundamental limitations, too.

Both jobs have gotten something, but ultimately that something merely helps us both to catch back up to the back of the line - right back up to where we were when Adoulin just came out (and before Delve). We both still have our problems that need to be addressed before we can actually perform well.



A good summary of where RDM stands now! I agree with you on all those points. Especially on the point about things being sub-able. Red Mage just felt like it lost part of its identity once everyone got access to most of their tricks. And I have no clue why they're not on any of the new melee gear. I figured they'd be a shoe-in for Thurandaut, at least.

I suppose, ultimately, the point I was trying to make in my previous post is that while Summoner got a fancy new item, it really doesn't do anything for us, and we're more or less in the same boat as all the other neglected jobs - of which I'd say SMN, RDM, and BST are firmly in that category. All the neglected jobs have been getting are temp patches that sort of help them limp along just a little while longer. (I'd have added BLU to that list of neglected jobs, but I think BLU is actually slated to get the Love it needs in August. Time will tell for them.)

Yeah I agree, sad that its taking this long but hey I can't imagine what it's like to code a video game. Hope they can speed it up a little. This game stole my youth. Not getting any younger. Sure dont wanna wait until retirement. =p