Reasons Why FFXI is Declining

[Hawklaser]

All I'm hearing is "Grinding is a game." No. We did that for enough years. The party system sucked in the long run. I played as both a dog DD and Princess-come-play-with-us RDM and WHM during that time. Let it go. SE's problem nowadays is making appropriate content and that's really only been an issue since Legion and Seekers.

Never had a problem with the grind, but more of getting into groups so could make progress outside of farming up some gil or a NM item. Now, Level Sync was a good idea to alleviate the time looking for XP parties and so if one person leveled it didn't kill a whole party in off hours. Too bad it ended up more being used so groups could stay in one camp way longer than they should of. Anyone else remember East Ronfaure (S) level syncs for Colibri? Now with GoV burns and abyssea being the main ways to get XP, takes a lot of what was enjoyable out of the xp grind. Granted it is nice having that speed up as much as it is now, but that also takes out a lot of the fun of the journey along the way. How many remember their first trip to Jeuno, unescorted at 20? Or doing any missions before quite a few of them were made easy mode? Or any number of crazy things from trying to solo prime avatars to having Guivre sneak up on your XP party and plotting to get revenge later? Which makes me wonder, what things does a new player have to do that will leave lasting memories for them? Because those kind of things are what help get and keep a new player interested in playing.

With most if not all new content being aimed at old players, it really is no wonder that XI is loosing more players than it is gaining. Which makes me wonder how long till FFXI gets an expansion like WoW's Cataclysm to try and reinvigorate things for newer players, and give some new experiences to older players. As the new players need engaging content at all levels instead of just endgame. Which is why CoP is still my favorite expansion of FFXI, because even though some parts were very hard, it had events for most levels to participate in, compared to most of the others which have been primarily aimed at near end game leveled and geared players.

[Prrsha]

Never had a problem with the grind, but more of getting into groups so could make progress outside of farming up some gil or a NM item. Now, Level Sync was a good idea to alleviate the time looking for XP parties and so if one person leveled it didn't kill a whole party in off hours. Too bad it ended up more being used so groups could stay in one camp way longer than they should of. Anyone else remember East Ronfaure (S) level syncs for Colibri? Now with GoV burns and abyssea being the main ways to get XP, takes a lot of what was enjoyable out of the xp grind. Granted it is nice having that speed up as much as it is now, but that also takes out a lot of the fun of the journey along the way. How many remember their first trip to Jeuno, unescorted at 20? Or doing any missions before quite a few of them were made easy mode? Or any number of crazy things from trying to solo prime avatars to having Guivre sneak up on your XP party and plotting to get revenge later? Which makes me wonder, what things does a new player have to do that will leave lasting memories for them? Because those kind of things are what help get and keep a new player interested in playing.

With most if not all new content being aimed at old players, it really is no wonder that XI is loosing more players than it is gaining. Which makes me wonder how long till FFXI gets an expansion like WoW's Cataclysm to try and reinvigorate things for newer players, and give some new experiences to older players. As the new players need engaging content at all levels instead of just endgame. Which is why CoP is still my favorite expansion of FFXI, because even though some parts were very hard, it had events for most levels to participate in, compared to most of the others which have been primarily aimed at near end game leveled and geared players.

Well said. People are looking through the eyes of a vet and not a new player. CoP was one of the few expansions that had content for just about every level above 30. SE could learn from this and not just add end game content next time but some new content and perks for lower level (newer players). This point becomes moot however when you can get to level 99 in 3 days sitting naked.

[Creole]

Well said. People are looking through the eyes of a vet and not a new player. CoP was one of the few expansions that had content for just about every level above 30. SE could learn from this and not just add end game content next time but some new content and perks for lower level (newer players). This point becomes moot however when you can get to level 99 in 3 days sitting naked.

With how easy it is to reach 99 it is not a smart business move to make content for a level that only A FEW people will benefit from. They need to make 99 content for all people not just end game Linkshells. That way once these new players hit 99 they will have something to look forward to and not be excluded from. Also abyssea should get some 99 upgrades that draw people back in there so new players can get some af3. Sum it up? Low level content? Pointless, end game content playable by all? Yes please.

[Prrsha]

With how easy it is to reach 99 it is not a smart business move to make content for a level that only A FEW people will benefit from. They need to make 99 content for all people not just end game Linkshells. That way once these new players hit 99 they will have something to look forward to and not be excluded from. Also abyssea should get some 99 upgrades that draw people back in there so new players can get some af3. Sum it up? Low level content? Pointless, end game content playable by all? Yes please.

Please read my post before this one before replying. It sums it up the entire reason why "speed leveling" people to 99 is a bad idea. Otherwise... you are taking my quote out of its context.

[Hawklaser]

Well said. People are looking through the eyes of a vet and not a new player. CoP was one of the few expansions that had content for just about every level above 30. SE could learn from this and not just add end game content next time but some new content and perks for lower level (newer players). This point becomes moot however when you can get to level 99 in 3 days sitting naked.

Indeed it does become moot when can hit 99 in 3 days, but often times for someone to be able to do that, they are either are a vet leveling a job or a mule, so know how to do it fast and likely have help from friends or LS members, or they have a vet that introduced them to the game helping them. Brand new players often don't have those resources to make the jump to 99 in 3 days, not to mention Limit breaks and lack of easy travel methods slowing them down.

With how easy it is to reach 99 it is not a smart business move to make content for a level that only A FEW people will benefit from. They need to make 99 content for all people not just end game Linkshells. That way once these new players hit 99 they will have something to look forward to and not be excluded from. Also abyssea should get some 99 upgrades that draw people back in there so new players can get some af3. Sum it up? Low level content? Pointless, end game content playable by all? Yes please.

It is equally not a smart business move to rely on your new players having to have veteran assistance to be able to enjoy the game early on, when most decide if they will keep playing or not. The key is not designing content for either new or old players, but for all players. If you only keep designing new end game content regardless of how accessible it is, it does nothing to ensure new players reach said endgame content.

Something that would work well for an expansion that would appeal to both new and old players, would be an expansion with a couple new jobs introduced, maybe even basic jobs instead of advanced, with an engaging story line and rewards that improve with level that are also tied to the story. Say for example something like Rajas ring, but the level cap for its improvements are tied to how far in the story you have progressed. Using Rajas and CoP mile stones as an example. Say lv 30 Rajas after beat the first 3 promys, lv 40 after Ouryu, lv 50 after Vazhl, and lv 65 upon gaining Sea access, and level 75 when completed. Keeping the variable stats and level 30 equip requirment for all stages, but having an initial reward being available early on instead of only at the very end.

Or even taking stuff introduced in SoA for end game, but also having some smaller and lower level ones scattered around elsewhere that newer players could do to start earning bayld and plasm without having to be rushed up to 99 to participate.

The overall point is, new players need more than just leveling to do in that crucial newbie stage where they decide if they want to keep playing or not. As remember they only get 30 RL days of free play time, not 30 days of actual playtime, so depending on their schedules and other commitments, you could be looking at less than 3 days of play time to actually hook them.

[Prrsha]

It is equally not a smart business move to rely on your new players having to have veteran assistance to be able to enjoy the game early on, when most decide if they will keep playing or not. The key is not designing content for either new or old players, but for all players. If you only keep designing new end game content regardless of how accessible it is, it does nothing to ensure new players reach said endgame content.

Something that would work well for an expansion that would appeal to both new and old players, would be an expansion with a couple new jobs introduced, maybe even basic jobs instead of advanced, with an engaging story line and rewards that improve with level that are also tied to the story. Say for example something like Rajas ring, but the level cap for its improvements are tied to how far in the story you have progressed. Using Rajas and CoP mile stones as an example. Say lv 30 Rajas after beat the first 3 promys, lv 40 after Ouryu, lv 50 after Vazhl, and lv 65 upon gaining Sea access, and level 75 when completed. Keeping the variable stats and level 30 equip requirment for all stages, but having an initial reward being available early on instead of only at the very end.

Or even taking stuff introduced in SoA for end game, but also having some smaller and lower level ones scattered around elsewhere that newer players could do to start earning bayld and plasm without having to be rushed up to 99 to participate.

The overall point is, new players need more than just leveling to do in that crucial newbie stage where they decide if they want to keep playing or not. As remember they only get 30 RL days of free play time, not 30 days of actual playtime, so depending on their schedules and other commitments, you could be looking at less than 3 days of play time to actually hook them.

Agreed. Another thing that puzzled me in FFXI is lack of experience points for completing quests. If you want to immerse new players in the storyline in FFXI, non repeatable quests can go a long way. The problem is the existing player base tends to (when new players ask for help) tell them to just leech their way to 99 to solve most of their woes. This leech form of leveling is a form of an exploit on the parts of the game... be they Fell Cleave or Abby early access. If SE INTENDS to have a working leveling system, they need to fix the exploits in them. If SE has no wish for a FUNCTIONING level based system, they need to abandon it. There is no need to sit on the fence about it. It just makes the game look broken to new players. Currently the rate of exp gained is fine outside of the 2 before mentioned exploits but I am sure some players can name a few others as well. These are the most common however.

EXP for quest completion would be nicer then getting say... an outdated Linen Robe as a reward. It would help speed up the leveling process but not by huge amounts.

Regarding your comment about new players not knowing how to get to level 99 in a few days... Most catch on pretty quick because they begin to ask around. Questions like this arise:

"Where is everyone?"
"Why is this area so empty? Do people go elsewhere to level?"
"Why am I leveling so slow and my friend is already 30 levels above me?"

When asked that in a shout, most players either tend to tell the player how to exploit level (step by step) or they point them to a wiki which explains the same thing. So yes, new players do know how to level that fast, they just don't learn what to do with the skills they have acquired until later in endgame (where it matters most). At that point it is sink or swim for the newbee. They either can't grasp the learning curve (or don't want to invest the time in doing so) then quit.

As for casual players, the ride for them sort of ends at end game.... since they have advanced there so fast, they feel that they have run out of casual things to do. Everything seems so serious and even if they wish to do a casual event, they can't find anyone interested in them because the rewards for them are so worthless.

SE needs to take a step back and retool their existing content for newer players. I am by no means saying that there should be LESS endgame content but I am saying that there is a great need for worthwhile newbee content. One that teaches them how to play the game, not how to leech from it.

[FrankReynolds]

Agreed. Another thing that puzzled me in FFXI is lack of experience points for completing quests.

This is a great idea, but SE was always afraid that someone would exploit this to level faster. If it only rewards exp once, then it will not make people want to help you. If it does then SE will make it horrible to ensure that it can't be exploited.

***For some reason they are not willing to piss people off by adding a good amount of reward and then scaling it back if it becomes a problem, but they are perfectly willing to piss off their most dedicated customers by nerfing things that they have put incredible time / effort into.

"Where is everyone?"

There are mostly AFK in cities. It has been this way since the game began.

"Why is this area so empty?

Because groups form in cities where large numbers of people have access to job changes, equipment, home points and auction houses for last minute food, medicine and gear purchases. It has been this way since the game began.

"Do people go elsewhere to level?"

with the exception of the dunes and kahzaam where people hung out because they had a hard time getting to / from the zones at that level, everyone usually hung out in jeuno waiting for a party just like they do now. It has been this way ever since the game began.

"Why am I leveling so slow and my friend is already 30 levels above me?"

Why do you care? Do you want to be level 99? or do you want to party? If you are in it for the experience then form a party and don't worry about getting super fast exp. If all you care about is leveling up then go do what he's doing.

They either can't grasp the learning curve (or don't want to invest the time in doing so) then quit.

Well at least they got to level a job. They used to hit that wall and quit at level 40 or so before.

As for casual players, the ride for them sort of ends at end game.... since they have advanced there so fast, they feel that they have run out of casual things to do. Everything seems so serious and even if they wish to do a casual event, they can't find anyone interested in them because the rewards for them are so worthless.

Yeah, what happened to the good old days when end game was super casual. All you had to do was schedule 10 hours a week around helping 15-30 other people build a huge mound of cash for one complete stranger who would inevitably take the money and run at the end. Or spend 7 hours a night standing in one spot waiting for the chance to be disappointed when the same bot claims that 21-24 hour spawn NM for the 9th day in a row while missing out on RL because the linkshell leader said he would kick you out of the shell and delete all your points if you missed another window this month.

Ahhh the casual days...

SE needs to take a step back and retool their existing content for newer players.

They do. But not this part. The exp changes are great for new players.

I am by no means saying that there should be LESS endgame content but I am saying that there is a great need for worthwhile newbee content. One that teaches them how to play the game, not how to leech from it.

Exp parties are still here. To be honest, they are probably not much harder to start now than they were then. The only difference is the reason. In the old days you couldn't find people because leveling was tedious and most people didn't want to do it, either that or they were the wrong levels / jobs. Now you can't find people because leveling is tedious and most people would rather skip through it.

The difference is that now people don't level in parties because they choose not to instead of not leveling because they can't.

TLDR; Dead horse debate. They are not getting rid of abyssea parties.

[Prrsha]

Stuff.

If you put as much energy in posting solutions for the problem at hand then just shooting them down at a whim with no hard evidence... FFXI would be a paradise by now.

Some people are just doom and gloom and the slightest suggestion of improving a system (which everyone I think here admits is broken now and dying fast) makes some froth with malcontent.

Complaining serves no purpose then to demoralize or flame the community unless you can post an alternative that would fix the current newbee problem (and other problems) at hand. Proclaiming everyone has rose colored glasses on (a metaphor many have used in the past) is subjective at best. Plus proclaiming everything is black or white, 100% right or wrong, serves no purpose either and garners no credibility on your part.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but the thread at hand is not really about that. It is about what can be done to help save FFXI with creative ideas. Doing anything else is just mucking up the forums with flames/gibberish/rooted opinions and makes it that much harder for the devs to wade through the mess to gleam any gems from it.

Pearls before swine...

[Prrsha]

Why do you care? Do you want to be level 99? or do you want to party? If you are in it for the experience then form a party and don't worry about getting super fast exp. If all you care about is leveling up then go do what he's doing.

The quote you quoted was not my own but one I have heard echoed many times by others... hence if you read the text before those quotes you'd see that.

I am not quite sure if you are asking me that question personally or just in general to a comment made by another?

[Hawklaser]

Regarding your comment about new players not knowing how to get to level 99 in a few days... Most catch on pretty quick because they begin to ask around. Questions like this arise:

"Where is everyone?"
"Why is this area so empty? Do people go elsewhere to level?"
"Why am I leveling so slow and my friend is already 30 levels above me?"

When asked that in a shout, most players either tend to tell the player how to exploit level (step by step) or they point them to a wiki which explains the same thing. So yes, new players do know how to level that fast, they just don't learn what to do with the skills they have acquired until later in endgame (where it matters most). At that point it is sink or swim for the newbee. They either can't grasp the learning curve (or don't want to invest the time in doing so) then quit.

Which comes back to your new players having to rely on the vets to get going. Eventually the new players that like the game will find out how to do things, but I think a good game design would be one that would allow them to get hooked on the game without having to rely on outside assistance in that critical introduction time period. A good example is a friend of mine that started when I returned to the game, his biggest complaint was being so lost when I could not help him out with things. That being from getting initial gear, quests he could do, where to explore. FFXI is one of the few MMOs that barely holds the newbies' hands, and at one point in its history it did not at all.

TLDR; Dead horse debate. They are not getting rid of abyssea parties.

They don't need to get rid of Abyssea parties or GoV burns, but they do need some engaging and entertaining content for new players. As rushing to 99 to just start a gear grind is not going to keep many new players around. Let them level as fast or as slow as they want, but at least give them more options with meaningful rewards for this new quick leveling style of FFXI.

Going to use that linen robe quest mentioned earlier as an example, before there might of been a use to it for a very new player, but now its not really worth it, as it is quite possible they either found something close in a brown casket or they will have leveled way past the item by the time they get the reputation and do all the leg work for the quest.

So how do you make quests like that worthwhile for a newbie, considering how fast one levels now? For one, would have to rework the fame system, two would likely need to start having quest items have useful augments, and three add some universal rewards such as Gil, XP, conquest points, or beastman seals to them.

We have this vast wasteland of unused content now, even back when FFXI was newer, quite a few places went unused. Just think of all the zones you don't do anything besides Voidwatch or just passing through now. Like when was the last time you went to Toraimarai Canal outside of doing something like Fenrir?

Point trying to make is that outside of leveling, a newbie does not have much to do until they hit 99 and have to start participating in the gear grind. How do you engage and hook a player when all they have to look forward to in their initial exposure to the game is grinding, followed by more grinding?