Reasons Why FFXI is Declining

[Rojiel]

There are some things I like about the faster leveling. Back when it was slow and took months to hit 75, you could only focus on a small number of jobs if you wanted to be really good at them. Now I'm able to try out new jobs I wouldn't have otherwise and become proficient with them in a relatively short time. However, I did my time in the gulags of old FFXI so even if I Fell Cleave a job 30-99, I still know at least the basics of playing it. New players skyrocket to 99 and don't know how to play.
Back when 75 was cap, I had a string of bad luck with Corsair's LB5 and was unable to complete it after several attempts. Because of this, I wasn't welcome in most groups doing content that I wanted. Since I was in school at this time, I wasn't able to put as much time into it as I am now and never made it past 70 before Abyssea. After, I was able to get White Mage to 70 and take the easy road to 75. In addition, I was able to solo a lot of the missions I couldn't before which is one of the main things I wanted to do because I love the storyline. Moving on to the bad side though:
A trend I've noticed on my server, Leviathan, since even before SoA came out, most events were dead outside of dedicated linkshells with high application requirements. Citing Voidwatch as an example, it seemed like people had either finished it and moved on, or hadn't yet started and were intimidated by it. I'm the type to do a lot of research and then make my own groups so I was able to make it all the way to Provenance Watcher. When I wanted to make a group who would do multiple runs for drops however, I began to notice the large rift in the player base. Part of that is because people just don't want to put in the time and effort to learn how these things work but I feel at least a little bit is because some of the events are just so dang complicated. I think if there were some events that were more simplified and user-friendly, people could get decent equipment that would boost their confidence and allow them to attempt the harder stuff.

[Daemon]

I think your comment should be directed at the developer, not the players.



I agree. I miss the old days when I would spend 7 hours trying to gather enough people to form a group and then spend the next 20 hours level synched to a 37 killing colibris in past west ronfaure until I hit 75.

I also really miss soloing BLM all the way to 75 because no one wanted BLMs in a group. That was way better than leveling BLM -99 in abyssea and then soloing all my skill ups. I Learned way more soloing goblin pets in one nuke than I ever did soloing monsters at 99. Knowing how to solo a level 40 pet is way more important than anything else on BLM.

My favorite thing was spending 3 hours begging for some bard to come join our merit party so that we could rape colibris for 15 minutes before the JP red mage randomly said "I'm Sleepy, See you again!" and promptly warped out leaving the whole party to wipe.

Or standing around with my flag up on thief for days on end. Or starting my own party on thief and having everyone say they don't want to party unless the party has 3 polearm sams and 2 bards.

Or soloing on paladin because wtf do we need a tank in an exp party for?

Best part was running for a half an hour to get to a camp and then the mage d/cs and then the party has to disband because no new mages can be found.

I also miss searching for people, but there's no one at your level range.

Or fighting Crabs and then more crabs and then more crabs and then when you finally level into a new camp... more crabs... I learned so much from that. Now whenever I go to NNI, Legion, Dynamis, Einherjar, Sea, Sky, VW, Skirmish, Delve... I know exactly how to handle the endless onslaught of crabs, unlike these abyssea noobs who leveled and skilled up by just killing the same thing over and over forever.

Tanking on dancer all the way to 75 taught me so much about what I would be expected to do in an endgame party. If I ever get in an endgame event on dancer, I'll know exactly what to do. I just can't wait to show off my veteran skills.

My biggest regret is leeching my red mage to 99 on my mule. I'm sure I could have learned so many things that I missed during the first 3 times that I leveled red mage and all the events I did on it. Level 75? This is it? Why do we still feel so powerless argh.

/s

I think your observation is not the same with Stompa due to differences in time.

Pre/During ToAu
Stompa maybe referring to a moment when FFXI Was filled with many fresh new players. Exploring, learning, appreciating the game as they progressed. Nothing was rushed. You could actually enjoy the armor for 10 levels or more after putting your sweat and blood farming the gil to pay for them.

During/Post ToAu
You sound like you are talking about a moment when ToAU was released and people just stopped caring and lost hope because how hard and painfully slow people started realizing the game was. Loss of motivation for things like not being able to find people or get into an exp party. Level 75 and this is it?? Why do I feel so powerless argh.

Then came Level Sync, Gov, Abby etc..

Day 1/Present day
I was disappointed to see the same monster on a daily basis for hours and hours, getting the same exp no matter the level (Outside of Abby of course). Just it took longer to kill at 75 than level 1.

A decade later...


I'm still sick of seeing crabs...

[Prrsha]

Aby expansion and the skill-up / level-up easymode options made people lazy imo. Turning up in Aby buttnaked and going afk for ages, too lazy to even open boxes, your only actual gaming achievement is turning the pages in a Dom ops book repeatedly for days on end. This kills the 'user input' aspect of being a gamer.
Turning pages in your pyjamas, is not the same as pre Aby xp parties where we were fighting imps and colibris etc. and you had to wear correct armor, not go afk, play your job right etc. Or in WOTG, campaign mobs would destroy you if you were afk and naked. This meant you had to be a gamer and not a naked leech. Attaining levels and skillups was a slow process, which trained you in playing your job, and was also important in learning party dynamics. It gave you a sense of accomplishment and self-worth, which is now entirely absent because you got lvl 99 in your underwear by clicking on a GOV npc a lot of times.
Many people including myself played FFxi originally because we wanted a more challenging game, with slow lvling and slow skill up, and structured tiered system of accomplishment. After 2010 this was nulled in various updates, to the point now you can get a lvl 99 War without ever using a weapon even once. That is where SE went wrong, they should have stayed with the original game mechanics. I think the only good thing they added since 2008 was level synch, because that allowed people to party when there wasnt a lvl appropriate tank seeking. After that, and especially in Soa, it has been downhill. I will continue to play this game as long as it is online, because I still enjoy the core content & love Vanadiel, but I miss the 04-09 era a lot.

You hit the nail on the head. 90% of the existing content is now considered a joke and quite imbalanced. Also, there is no incentive to do such old content as well as rendering all of the existing equipment irrelevant. How does this effect an end gamer? Not much BUT it has a huge effect on NEW players. The reason why FFXI is failing is the lack of fresh blood to this game. Until you give new players a rewarding experience when they first enter Vanadiel (other then the "get to level 99 1st mantra" you won't have the retention that you need to keep the game going.

Want proof? Look at the lack of low level gear on the AH. Look at the current state of the economy. Last of all listen to the comments from new players who have played over a month (if you can find a handful of them). They are chased off by a steep learning curve that "Abby butt naked/page burning" syndrome has caused. They are handed slices of easy mode and get to 99 with ease... and they... SMACK, right into a huge learning curve of a wall called SoA endgame. Most get frustrated and quit due to the lack of a smooth transition from easy to hard. This is 101 of MMORPGs and I have no clue to why SE does not see this.

FFXI used to have this. You used to learn over time how a party worked instead of leeching. You learned how to do large scale events in CoP (due to the level caps it had). The level caps were a good thing (I know you are frothing at the mouth to tell me otherwise, but hear me out 1st and judge after). It allowed low level players to do things hand in hand with vets. It was not a perfect scenario however. I would have liked to see some form of a new LFP system to match players for missions and a larger inventory system so people could store gear sets easily for a level capped event. But those matters aside, it was a good idea.

My suggestion to the problem at hand doesn't take a quick fix but one that exists in several stages (all of which need to be functioning for it to work)

#1 Revamp the inventory/storage system (you can't do capped events easily if it takes you 3 hours to mule for gear)

#2 Slow down the rate of experience gain for books. The current (non book exp) rate is fine now, but the GoV books are not balanced at all. Tone down the rate of exp from a book and allow the bonus to act once per game day. Remove any buffs the books give because this harms the economy by making items like reraise earrings, protect rings etc worthless. Remove the HP and MP tick for the same reason above. I remember the days when yag drinks sold like hotcakes.

#3 To avoid leeching, limit Abby to level 75+ only. The large amount of exp gathered there is meant for higher level players who have more of an exp gap to fill then lower level players. Also limiting abby access will flood the market with vital synthing crystals that crafters depend on. It will also broaden the range of items that the AH lacks (like drops from lower level mobs all over vanadiel) because people will roam to level instead of sitting in mines using fell cleave all day.

#4 This is a big one. In order to make new players feel less rushed to get to 99, add events that cater to lower level players. And higher ones alike. Lets use an example to describe this (a poor one but it can get the point across). Campaign battles in WotG. If WotG was the starting area with low level mobs all around the zone but high level events happening during a campaign battle you could include new players in so many ways. Due to the statistics of FFXI we all know a low level player has no chance to help anyone in a battle situation in the main fight, however, the devs could say... make a small number of support enemies appear of low level that are in the large expanse of the zone. Maybe they can be triggered by clicking on a ??? that pops a level 20 set of mobs with a level cap on. The lower level players can defeat them and as a reward maybe say... the high player group could get extra buffs or even more treasure chests and a much increased loot pool due to the actions of the newbies. The newbies in turn could get gil or items appropriate to their level or even synthing loot that can be sold at the AH that can help high level players. In this way you sort of have a harmony of new and old players working together as common goal.

In order for this to work, the rewards need to stay up to date with the new content and not be left in the dust with now worthless items like that are in garrison and the like (in terms for higher level players). That way there is no need do design a mentality around needing to be a certain level to help your friends. A low level player feels like they are leeching from your higher level buddies at best. There should be someway for them to interact and return the favor. Without this, it gives a bad vibe to the game and doesn't make new players feel welcome among the rest of the population.

This is only one example... if you wish to have more... I could go on but this was the simplest one I could think of off the top of my head that could demonstrate such a thing.

I'm not new to MMOs or MMORPGs, I have seen them die over and over again due to many similar problems. I used to play Ultima Online back in the day and even Zork on the school's mainframe when I was young. I can still play these games and find them fun. The Nostigla goggles argument while valid sometimes... is often times a poor excuse to describe something that "worked" long ago and people enjoyed. Just because technology has changed do I enjoy a text based game any less? Not I. I still enjoy them. I still take out my CDs of Planescape Torment and play them with the very much the same joy now then I did 10+ years ago.

If nostliga was a common problem why would there be so many emulators around and roms? Did the people who enjoy those kinds of games suddenly drop off the earth. Nope. I think the opposite. You'll find plenty more gamers annoyed with games trying to cater to everyone's whim and becoming a clone, then just being creative and breaking away from the pack. FFXI did that for me and it still does... until of late.

I'm not new to MMOs or MMORPGs, I have seen them die over and over again due to many similar problems. I used to play Ultima Online back in the day and even Zork on the school's mainframe when I was young. I can still play these games and find them fun. The "Nostalgia goggles" argument while valid sometimes... is often times a poor excuse to describe something that "worked" long ago and people enjoyed. Just because technology has changed do I still enjoy a text based game any less? Not I. I still enjoy them. I still take out my CDs of Planescape Torment and play them with the very much the same joy now then I did 10+ years ago. The very same thing could apply to books vs. tablets.

If nostalgia was a common problem why would there be so many emulators around and roms? Did the people who enjoy those kinds of games suddenly drop off the earth. Nope. I think the opposite. You'll find plenty more gamers annoyed with games trying to cater to everyone's whim and becoming a clone, then just being creative and breaking away from the pack. FFXI did that for me and it still does... until of late. Instead of staying true to it's concept, it's trying to become a game it is not. A glance at the current leveling system is an example of this.

I know people will argue that MMOs should vastly change over time but I ask why? Why should they change their basic fundamentals? Shouldn't they design a new game or sequel if the wished to do so? Why not save those ground breaking items (of a non level based system for FF14) SoA was an expansion, abby too, it shouldn't have changed the core values of the game.

[Creole]

snip.

Sorry everything you mentioned would punish new players and reward high level end game players. Who cares how fast you level the game isnt hard to learn, switch gear, weaponskill, switch back. Not hard at all, only a few classes take more then a few button presses. Point is games are ruined by the community and as long as people continue to act the way they do new players will just leave before/after hitting 99.

[AJ666]

I disagree , I agree with Stompa and Prrsha.

[Daemon]

I disagree , I agree with Stompa and Prrsha.

Me too I have to agree with both.

No matter if it takes you 2 hours to grind or 6 hours to grind. You are still grinding. However, the way you progressed is totally different now than before.

You can argue how hard it is to find a group.
We still have that problem today. Just in different ways now than before.. VW, Eibherjar, Assault, Limbus, sky? Who does sky as a group anymore?

We have different types of players in FFXI. Some like the grind to be laid back where you can hang out with 5 other people all day and talk about all sorts of stuff. Be there to appreciate the level you gained and try out that new gear set, weapon you were holding for the moment you leveled up. Try out that new job ability, WS in front of those people in your party, or that brand new spell youve been dying to use since spending an entire week from exping just to farm and save up enough gil to buy all your gear for the next few levels.

To us, it was wasnt about the exp. Because exping to us is like going to your job. Yeah some of us don't like to go to work but do we have any choice? Gotta earn that money for bills right? Or else fall behind and get no where.

So yeah, exp was just one of those things that had to be done, yet our focus was more on the atmosphere, the people, the adventure.


Then you got people who find leveling is a chore and just wanna get it done and over with. Because they have millions of other things to do, exping was only holding them back. Especially when you start seeing your friends you started out with surpass you and move on.

Kinda like being held back a grade only to see everyone move forward without you.

Then there's people who can play more than 6 hours a day.
While you have those who only have 1-2 hours a night. Some only on the weekend.

To those who like the new direction. It's because in a sense you feel like you are progressing. Hey I just got 75 levels in today.

Boy I got 99 today, can finally switch over to a new job and start leveling that for VW. While my other job is for Dyna.

Which there is nothing wrong with that because we all have different reasons and different expectations of how we want to play a game that we are paying for.

However. When some people say "Actually spend time learning how to play the job"

It's not them saying everyone doesn't know how to play the job. It's that rather spending 8-12 hours leveling to 99 in an 18 man alliance, we stay for hours trying out different skillchains, learning how to use different gear sets, figure out which food was the best for different areas and camps. Look up monster information to see weaknesses. Explore different areas together trying to figure out where would be the best place to level.

And yeah to us, moving from dunes to Jeuno, figuring out how to get to the new city and do the quests like chocobo license.. Leveling in Qifim to Lower Delkfutts to Kahzam getting lost in yuhtunga and yhoater, sea serpents grotto to exploring norg together, then moving to garlaige citadel, gustav tunnel on to Altepa to labyrinth of onzonzo to Temple of Uggalpeh to Kuftal tunnel to cape terrigan on to sky...

The point that they were trying to make was the game is not like that anymore. I remember so many times I got lost in yhoater jungle, the entire party got lost too, spend so much time just to get to the spot safely.

Or how many people fell down the hole in Garlaige citadel? Or the infamous mob train at the entrance of crawlers near?

Back then we had more fun enjoying the entire game exploring different areas together with friends, small exp groups than today's. gather together jueno lets just do it already and be done with it 18 man grind, or quick gear that anyone can get in a day really. Cough.. Delve...

Remember back in the day leveling in dunes, Valkurm emperor sometimes spawned on your group out of nowhere and wiped everyone out who couldn't run fast enough to Selbina?

Or everyone running back to the entrance of Qufim at night because ghouls and banshee would spawn and wipe everyone out. Oh look that taru whm... run for it.... oh dam... another one that didnt make it...


Death was fun back then. I lost count of how many different ways I died.. Some pretty dumb, some very funny...

[FrankReynolds]

A bunch of misconceptions and stuff

All wrong. Slow grind exp parties were one of the worst things about this game. They don't teach people anything that they couldn't learn after capping their levels. Actually, a lot of what people do learn in parties is the wrong thing to do / expect once they hit level cap. They are a huge deterrent to new players. The idea that people have to level that way to learn their jobs is a complete lie.

Please read my post before this one before replying. It sums it up the entire reason why "speed leveling" people to 99 is a bad idea. Otherwise... you are taking my quote out of its context.

No, he was spot on. Everything you said was wrong.

[Prrsha]

Stuff, conjecture. I like Pie. I use the word "slow grind" in every post. Everything you said was wrong.

Really? Every single word? Every single letter of every single word? To make such a statement defies the logic of ceiling cat. As such, -1 internet for you.

In the words of no no no cat... NO NO NO!

Also... if slow grinding is slow, and by contrast you are implying that means you like fast grinding, but fast grinding is still grinding is it not? Fast and Slow are extremes. The speed to me is not so much the issue as the quality and skill used to level. Exploit leveling just warps the system into something it was not designed to be. I don't like the rate of exp gain when Tanaka was around but I like the current speed. I don't like the lazy exploits however because well... SE might as well place a button on the screen that says "Press to be level 99 now".

Too many posters are getting cancer. It's killing off the player-base.

Is cancer killing the posters? Or are the posters causing cancer? If so, they must be giving each other cancer. I'd recommend a quarantine on =10. Next patient!

[Stompa]

I'm not new to MMOs or MMORPGs, I have seen them die over and over again due to many similar problems. I used to play Ultima Online back in the day and even Zork on the school's mainframe when I was young. I can still play these games and find them fun. The Nostigla goggles argument while valid sometimes... is often times a poor excuse to describe something that "worked" long ago and people enjoyed. Just because technology has changed do I enjoy a text based game any less? Not I. I still enjoy them. I still take out my CDs of Planescape Torment and play them with the very much the same joy now then I did 10+ years ago.

I still got my old copies of Baldur's Gate 1&2 & planescape torment too lol, and play them. And Attic Attack on spectrum 48k although it doesnt load very well now (it never did!) Your point on old games is excellant, the truth is that if a game is a great game it becomes a classic, it will never stop being a classic, even if newer games have better graphics or w/e. Ffxi is undoubtably a classic game, it will never stop being a classic game, it just gets superseded in the mainstream by newer eyecandy lolgames like 14.
I agree totally with you, Aby should have been lvl 75+ from the start, people under 75 should xp in the old areas, and I don't just mean Gusgen/CN. Me and my friend still lvl in Aydeewa Subterrane in 2013, at the appropriate level. Its a beautiful area and of course now it is empty all the time. Xping in level appropriate areas got people to explore Vanadiel and enjoy the scenery and learn about where everything is. The desert for beetles on the rock, QC spiders, MZ trolls etc.. Troll xp parties were awesome because trolls are one of the best designed mobs to look at, and I used to actually look forward to xping (imagine that!) when we were doing trolls up on the battlements.
SE got it right when they added high lvl GOV mobs to old areas last year~, they should hold that thought and try to keep the old areas relevant to ppl. When SoA was announced I was hoping it would be like Wotg with mobs you can kill at lvl 20 like the saplings outside Bastokmarkets[s], all the way up to enemy generals storming the Allied held areas with troops. Imo both Toau and Wotg were masterpieces, they had a lot of depth, atmosphere and storyline and made you feel involved in the ongoing battlefields as an individual rpg character. Its actually quite heartbreaking to see Campaign npc heroes with their individual trademark /saymode but nobody is there to hear it, coz theyre all in leechburn pts looking at the walls.

[Oddwaffle]

Here's another opinion.

Opinion/Reason: FFXI has too many empty content. Empty as in people rarely does them. MMM anyone? Garrison? These are ideas that didn't go anywhere but are kept in the game. As the game progress, more content get introduced and the old ones stick around. The more new content you give people the less people will do other content. These content are kept for the sake of 1-2 people doing them (if they still do it somehow) and resources are used to keep them around like useless fat in your body.

There are a lot of players who have never ever done any of the old content. To them these would be new and refreshing. SE is abandoning these content too quickly by introducing new things. New players would never experience how rich FFXI was if they are doing what they are doing now. Race to 99, join Delve as a Whm or Cor -> end.

I have played this game for over 10 years and I'm sure there are things I have yet to do. However, none of that really matters now with how the game is focus.

Solution: Spend a bit of resources on recycling old content. Don't spend all your resources in making new areas, new monsters, new battlefields. Concept wise, it's not that hard to put some of your inspirations and new ideas into old content and make them interesting and refreshing again. Don't just cut and paste them with higher level monsters. Instead mix and match them, modify them a bit, add a little bit here, take away that annoying thing...etc.

Stop worrying about getting new content. FFXI is old. That means it has a large amount of ideas and materials that can be built up on. I don't know much about coding but I think it's far easier to recycle, rebuilt and recreate some old things than just simply putting in new things. I know veteran artists and professional engineers often drawn their inspirations from their old work, sketches and even doodles or abandoned work.

Lure people with item rewards. Not the silly chocobo hat or such. Make something useful. Give people options.