Reasons Why FFXI is Declining

[Spectreman]

in all honesty they should have gotten rid of the bcnm lvl caps when the lvl 75 lvl cap was lifted on chars. i would do some BCNMs solo just for some things, but the lvl cap on those is hindering me and I dont want to bug the few friends left playing FFXI with such tiny bullshit like BCNMs that drop crap :/. all BCNM drops are garbage for nowadays standarts, EVEN kraken club is garbage it was allready pre adoulin but now with the new ilvl weapons its total utter shit. its only purpose is now if you have some WS quest open you need to collect WS points for (and thats only for singlehanded WS quests! or ranged ones!)

considering the current population i am facing during EU prime time SE needs to do somethign about:
- Remove BCNM lvl caps so they can be solod by high lvl
- Remove Salvage entry restriction of 3 people
- Remove Assautl restriction of 3 people
- Remove Einherjar entry restriction of 6 people.

its so bad atm that you cant find 2 additional people to enter somethign that requires 3 people :/

Jesus yea, SE could just remove the assult requirement of 3 ppl cause ppl that restarted from scratch like me cant find anyone to bother with assault anymore. They could create a separte area just for soloing assault so it shouldnt cause lag to others.

[Arcon]

[..] the grind spirit is notably absent now.

The "grind spirit" was never there for any reasonable person. Grinding is stupid and always has been. The only reason why people did it back then is because they had to. The good content was at 75 and people did what they had to do to get to 75. And guess what, they didn't always do that either. Sometimes the grind was just too boring and tedious. That's why many people had one main job and maybe one or two others. Having more than three out of twenty jobs was just a horrible experience, hence people did not want to put up with it. Now think about how ridiculous that sounds. The game offers you 20 jobs (WotG era, but the same reasoning can be applied to the 18 in the ToAU era or 15 in the CoP/RotZ era). Of those 20 you can only play 3 without losing your mind (some could take more grinding, others less, I did with one job for about four years), because the game does not give you access to the others without sacrificing days of effort with no personal gain whatsoever. In what universe is that not fucked up?

"Grind spirit" has to be one of the most ridiculous terms I've ever heard on these forums. Grind is by definition repetitive, mindless content. Content you can clear with one set routine, with no physical or intellectual effort whatsoever. How can any sane person like that? It defies human reasoning. The human mind looks for new experience, grind is by definition the exact opposite. Hence, if you like grind there's demonstrably something wrong with you.

[nyheen]

The "grind spirit" was never there for any reasonable person. Grinding is stupid and always has been. The only reason why people did it back then is because they had to.

"grind spirit" was working pre aby. because they had to . they had to LFP (without keying or leeching) or start up your own exp pt. the whole pt system was working fine like that. but now it a big mess. so i guess this "new experience" you looking for is how things are now?

[Afania]

The "grind spirit" was never there for any reasonable person. Grinding is stupid and always has been. The only reason why people did it back then is because they had to. The good content was at 75 and people did what they had to do to get to 75. And guess what, they didn't always do that either. Sometimes the grind was just too boring and tedious. That's why many people had one main job and maybe one or two others. Having more than three out of twenty jobs was just a horrible experience, hence people did not want to put up with it. Now think about how ridiculous that sounds. The game offers you 20 jobs (WotG era, but the same reasoning can be applied to the 18 in the ToAU era or 15 in the CoP/RotZ era). Of those 20 you can only play 3 without losing your mind (some could take more grinding, others less, I did with one job for about four years), because the game does not give you access to the others without sacrificing days of effort with no personal gain whatsoever. In what universe is that not fucked up?

"Grind spirit" has to be one of the most ridiculous terms I've ever heard on these forums. Grind is by definition repetitive, mindless content. Content you can clear with one set routine, with no physical or intellectual effort whatsoever. How can any sane person like that? It defies human reasoning. The human mind looks for new experience, grind is by definition the exact opposite. Hence, if you like grind there's demonstrably something wrong with you.

If you don't like grinding, then RPG isn't for you.

Can you please explain exactly HOW to keep players around without having to grind in an RPG game?

Grinding is part of RPG genre, period. Ever since 1980 era RPG is full of grind, and mostly about grind, now it's 2013 and it's still grind in past 30 years. You grind level, you grind gears, and you feel satisfied after you got to the level you want or gears you want, THAT is the fun of playing RPG, character development that needs time, something you can't experience in FTG RTS FPS etc. I've yet to play one RPG that has 0 grind element. Some RPG needs to grind longer and some needs to grind less, but grind is the core of RPG even if it's less grind. XIV has way less grinding than old XI, that doesn't mean grind doesn't exist in XIV, it's just less grind and less satisfaction after you hit level cap/obtained gears.

I also have to point out, for MMO like this, where the main purpose is to beat boss and obtain gears, you can't keep players around with 0 grind element. You just can't.

If you ONLY want action or strategy but 0 grind element, there's FTG, there's RTS, and there's chess, which doesn't need grind to play with other players. Take away the grind element RPG isn't RPG anymore. And yes, ppl enjoy grind for past 30 years, don't deny it. There's a reason why most JRPG has to add secret boss/secret item or some sort, for players to grind.

And if someone want to make progress without killing braincell, let them grind. I don't enjoy every kind of grind, but if the result of the grind is rewarding, I usually enjoy it. I don't always want 1000 action, because I'm not always in the mood to play FTG/RTS/chess game w/e, grind style gameplay= I can always make progress by doing easy things, as long as the reward is worth the effort.

[Arcon]

If you don't like grinding, then RPG isn't for you.

Wrong. I love RPGs and I've played many for as long as I've been playing games (which was pretty much my entire life).

Most of your argument is about grind in general. I'll say something about that in a bit, but keep in mind that we're talking about old school FFXI leveling here.

Can you please explain exactly HOW to keep players around without having to grind in an RPG game?

How did I manage to keep playing a game for years despite having all the jobs I cared for at 99? Mainly interesting events. Difficult events that require multiple attempts and change in strategy to eventually complete and that can be interesting and intense despite having done it multiple times.

In non-MMOG RPGs you can (and many games do) extend their life time through an engaging story, interesting support characters, involving gameplay, many side quests/missions to complete and a big world to explore. All of that is part of an RPG and none of that requires repetition at all, let alone grind.

That said, the term "grind" itself is not very clearly defined. People use it to describe anything repetitive, but that alone does not describe my idea of the word. Personally I wouldn't call it a grind unless it also didn't require any effort. If the process has been spiced up, it can be interesting despite repetition. However, that almost requires some difficulty attached to it. Dynamis was like that, which is why I didn't mind doing it for years. It required everyone to pay attention and bring their A-game every time or it would result in shitty rewards in the best case and wipes all around in the worst case.

Leveling isn't anywhere like that. It's absolutely mindless. I could literally do it blind, and I could already do that after my first few hours of it. That's what I call grind, and that's what games can most definitely do without. See blow.

Grinding is part of RPG genre, period. Ever since 1980 era RPG is full of grind, and mostly about grind, now it's 2013 and it's still grind in past 30 years.

Wrong. Grind wasn't part of Baldur's Gate 15 years ago, nor is it part of Skyrim. I don't know how it was like before then because I didn't play any RPGs from back then, but I at least know it wasn't part of pen and paper RPGs, ever, and those date back further than any video game RPG.

You grind level, you grind gears, and you feel satisfied after you got to the level you want or gears you want, THAT is the fun of playing RPG, character development that needs time, something you can't experience in FTG RTS FPS etc.

I love character development. Characters don't just progress through levels though. That definition never described FFXI (at least not after the level 50 cap increase). Character development also encompasses skills, spells, abilities and equipment, among which FFXI most prominently features the latter in its end-game state.

Take away the grind element RPG isn't RPG anymore.

Wrong. Grind is not an essential part of RPG. Take away the grind and you get a good RPG. There are RPG with no grind and there are non-RPGs with a lot of grind (racing games, RTS, even FPS, just look at CoD's player progression model).

And yes, ppl enjoy grind for past 30 years, don't deny it.

I don't know of a single person who does, and I would bet good money that even you don't. Every time you grind to do something it's time wasted that could be used to do something new and exciting instead, and even if you won't admit it to yourself, that's something you would rather do. What you enjoy is not the grind but the reward for the grind. And you use that to justify the grind itself, but that doesn't make it good. Where you enjoy hitting a button fifty thousand times to feel good about something you acquired, I'd prefer acquiring it through a good strategy that I took a while to perfect. And when I do acquire it in the end, I feel more satisfied than killing a million colibris.

I don't mind investing the same time as someone who grinds their fingers off, even more, as long as the journey to get there is involving and entertaining. Leveling was never that, in all the time I played. If it was to you, congratulations, because FFXI must have been one hell of a game for you. I wish I felt the same way, I would be much easier to please. Instead I'm here demanding fun of my games.

[Tennotsukai]

Pretty sure a good reason this game has declined is because there are several things broken in the game they neglect to fix. Fix Tourbillion, please!