Sange

[saevel]

I agree that they should make it so Sange doesn't use ammo. That or make super cheap easy to craft / obtain throwing stars that stack to 99 and can be bundled.

[Washburn]

It would also be nice if NIN could change from, say, Ungur Boomerang, to the throwing weapon, and back to the Ungur Boomerang without going to 0 TP. that way, if you DID find sufficiently reasonably prices ammo, which is currently impossible, you wouldnt be punished two-fold still. Currently it's a three-fold. b/c sange sucks, you lose TP for changing ranged, and you lose ammo when using sange, the 5 minute ability. So even if it had an unlimited shot effect to it, if youre /DNC, it would be dumb to even change ranged to your sange set (b/c you'd want a ranged acc/attk set i'm sure)

[Fyreus]

It really wouldn't hurt to have another ranged dps... we have so many mob babysitters and so only 5 of 18 are able to do over 200dmg from 15~

[wish12oz]

It really wouldn't hurt to have another ranged dps... we have so many mob babysitters and so only 5 of 18 are able to do over 200dmg from 15~

Except that throwing is done from next to the mob, not far away from it.

[Fyreus]

Except that throwing is done from next to the mob, not far away from it.

Did you misunderstand the part suggesting another ranged dps? Or are you trolling me? If i can throw from 16 which is outside aoe range must i sit next to the mob because another player said so?

[wish12oz]

Did you misunderstand the part suggesting another ranged dps? Or are you trolling me? If i can throw from 16 which is outside aoe range must i sit next to the mob because another player said so?

Throwing does terrible damage to start with, being really far outside the optimum range will drastically lower your damage, making it even more useless. It's game mechanics, not trolling.

EDIT: 16 isn't outside AoE range either, you will still get hit by some stuff.

[Fyreus]

Most aoe is around 15. When we consider throwing we understand know it will slow us down melee wise which is why a decent alternative is to adjust it to become something used as a worthwhile skill (ranged dps) and even though i havent used ranged attacks since like genbu in 04 i remember tp being very very low. Pair that with how mobs gain tp (player +3) from players then you have something to do while weakened or it needs to be tweaked to rng/pup rng/cor tp/ws standards as a real skill.

I don't know about anyone else but i can give up ~20 points of damage on throwing to gain a good range if i need to throw.

[Akujima]

I don't know about anyone else but i can give up ~20 points of damage on throwing to gain a good range if i need to throw.

Wish just has a talent for stating the obvious.

If the sweet spot for throwing is right next to the mob, then change it. If RNG sucks then fix it. Give it more ranged attack, speed up its firing rate. But it's probably just because inside Abyssea, with all those atma's and stat buffs that give melee jobs a godlike boost, that leaves RNG out to dry. Which is most likely the reason why Wish just wants to troll us and tell us the same thing over and over. I'm sure RNG is still half decent outside of Abyssea.

We already know throwing and ranged DPS sucks, that's the reason we're on here asking for a fix. We know throwing does terrible damage, we know that haste is so great and cool. We know this $#!% already.

So make the throwing sweet spot from afar, give more readily available shuriken, make Sange just a barrage type ability instead of having to lose shadows. And there you go, you have some initial burst damage at the start of a battle.

I never once said to completely nerf dual wield or a NIN's melee and re-hash NIN so that it's entirely a ranged DPS, but the rest of you seem to want to put words in my mouth, then call me stupid.

[wish12oz]

EDIT: In case you missed it, here's why throwing is bad.
Manji Shuriken have a 192 delay.
Kannagi+Kamome have a combined (210+180) 390 delay.
When you hit the delay reduction cap of 80%, this becomes a new delay of 78.
78+78=156, you get slightly more then 2 melee attacks rounds per throw.(throwing delay is 192)
with apoc, /war, brutal, eponas you have triple attack+18%, double attack+18%, which means 54% of the time, you get an extra attack per melee round.
So at +54% melee attacks per round, every time you attack, you get 1 extra attack, because you attack twice every round.
you get slightly more then 2 attack rounds per throw, you get 3 attacks per round.
Your throwing damage needs to be slightly better then 6 melee attacks and give as much tp as 6 melee attacks to be on par with just meleeing.
Throwing comes no where near either of these 2 things, and never will, it's impossible unless they make haste affect ranged attacks.

[Fyreus]

So... go play rng because i also like rng too? I can't play ninja and want fixes made to a class i enjoy?

How about i spell this out to you: W-E__A-R-E__I-N_A __T-H-R-E-A-D__W-H-E-R-E__W-E__A-L-R-E-A-D-Y__K-N-O-W__A-N-D__A-C-K-N-O-W-L-E-D-G-E__T-H-I-S__F-A-C-T. W-E__A-L-S-O__K-N-O-W__S-E__R-E-A-D-S__T-H-I-S__A-N-D__T-H-E-R-E-F-O-R-E__A-R-E__S-U-G-G-E-S-T-I-N-G__G-O-O-D__C-H-A-N-G-E-S__T-O__I-L-L__P-E-R-C-E-I-V-E-D__O-R__U-N-U-S-A-B-L-E__J-A. T-H-A-N-K__Y-O-U__C-A-P-T-A-I-N__O-B-V-I-O-U-S__F-O-R__L-E-T-T-I-N-G__U_S__K-N-O-W__J-U-S-T__W-H-A-T__W-E__S-A-I-D__A-N-D__K-N-E-W__A-N-D__R-E-P-O-S-T-I-N-G__I-T.

Also, why do you think i said:

it will slow us down melee wise

- slowing us down melee wise means less damage/tp correct?

it needs to be tweaked to rng/pup rng/cor tp/ws standards as a real skill.

- good thing i went a few hours into the past to make this quote come in line with your views so i wouldn't be wrong in the future.

Just allow us to whittle a mob while weakened while feeding very little tp atleast.

- Here i am offering a suggestion and you are again telling us our current throwing attack isn't as fast as haste. Maybe this comment was aimed at someone else? I didn't make a single claim supporting throwing over katana but i did make a statement stating that it needs to be brought up to rng/cor/pup/etc because they have skills (same context mind you) that accompany their actions.

I know i'm being super trolled and am passing time till work but... This is a thread where we are suggesting fixes to sange which will inevitably lead to changes needed to throwing. So far you've told us things we knew and we've informed you of things that you didn't know yet you go on to tell us stuff we already posted and put words in some peoples mouths allegedly.

If you have nothing to contribute and don't want to see people discuss job related issues on the SE forums, then why are you keeping up on this thread?