Item Levels

[FrankReynolds]

The way I read it is that before, you would see a weapon that gave Dagger skill +10 and that would give you accuracy and attack on all both weapons if you were dual wielding.

The new stat will only apply to your main hand.

They also plan on using this in place of + acc or + attack from now on. So instead of making a dagger with 10 acc, 10 attack and 5 skill, they will just make one with 188 skill for no apparent reason :P

[Mokeil]

OK, I'm trying to wrap my head around this thing without much luck.

Matsui said the whole reason was because of Dual Wield. OK, I'm with him so far. Dual Wielding was more or less why 2-handers got the change to Str and Dex affecting Attack and Accuracy so long ago to begin with. But now newer mobs are based on the type of Att/Acc ratings a 2-hander has, and that left all non 2-handers out in the cold. Thus dual wielders got buffed up, so now there needs to be a new way to make up for that off-hand weapon.

(Never mind that dual wielders are still be stuck with having to equip weapons at two different item levels - and thus vastly different DMG ratings - and that off hand weapons aren't getting the same boost to Attack that main hand weapons are).

But then he says this new skill thing is going to be calculated differently than what we're used to, and then doesn't actually say how it's going to be calculated differently. Well... that's not at all useful in helping us to understand this new stat.

Now, here's where I start to lose track of what Matsui intends: He says it's going to replace Accuracy and Attack... but then, in the examples given, weapons with no Attack or Accuracy stats on them suddenly have +Skill on them... and the one weapon that actually has Accuracy on it already not only has the same Accuracy rating on it "after", but also gains Attack in addition to the +Skill.

And, of course, it's spelled out on the new weapons the same way as previous versions, but it works differently. (Except for those "some exceptions" when it won't... Are we somehow supposed to divine which is which?) Honestly, adding this thing sounds like it's just making figuring out our Accuracy and Attack ratings even more of a pain in the butt, and not at all easier.

And where is all this extra Parry skill coming from? Not that extra Parry skill is bad, but it had no bearing on what was being discussed. I can't help but feel that this is just a mad scramble to catch up to the reality of implementing these item levels - much like how the new Naakual armors have huge piles of Evasion and Magic Evasion on them.

[Delvish]

You can also think of it in the sense that your item is say level 120. Normally if you leveled from 99 to 120 (excluding cap) without skilling, you would have a difference of 188 skill. I don't know the exact levels on these new weapons, but I expect it to be around the 115-120 range.

The reason the skill applies to weapon only, is because it is an ITEM level, not a job level. Since the skill will be applied to bayld gear too, we'll use that. So you get the nifty +188 axe and the bayld axe with +49. Your nifty axe is going to be lvl~120 so you get 188, but your bayld axe is only lvl~105 (49 skill levels difference). You don't get 237 skill, you get 188 skill and associated accuracy/attack bonuses in your main hand (logically you put the stronger in your main hand) and 49 skill with associated accuracy/attack bonuses in your off hand.

Edit: In response to what Mokiel said about how parrying skill plays into this, it re-enforces my theory in that your defensive skills are equally suffering when compared to your offensive skills when you look at difference of levels, hence why parrying is included. As to why Evasion is not included, because that is more something you do with your body, not your weapon. We may see evasion skill added to gear in a similar fashion.

[Mokeil]

You can also think of it in the sense that your item is say level 120. Normally if you leveled from 99 to 120 (excluding cap) without skilling, you would have a difference of 188 skill. I don't know the exact levels on these new weapons, but I expect it to be around the 115-120 range.

This explanation does help some, thanks. It certainly helps me place where the numbers are coming from (and why parry skill is suddenly on all these things).

[pretre]

is anyone else getting tired of seeing R/E/M in a post and then noticing that once again we got no info on them

[FrankReynolds]

is anyone else getting tired of seeing R/E/M in a post and then noticing that once again we got no info on them

Yes.

Also... to be clear here.

I haven't run any maths, but this appears as though it will completely negate the meager boosts they just gave dual wielders. Correct me if I'm wrong, but is this not going to widen the damage gap between jobs like thief or nin and war or sam even further?

Everything they do is just crazy over the top convoluted for no apparent reason at all.

[Delvish]

Yes.

Also... to be clear here.

I haven't run any maths, but this appears as though it will completely negate the meager boosts they just gave dual wielders. Correct me if I'm wrong, but is this not going to widen the damage gap between jobs like thief or nin and war or sam even further?

Everything they do is just crazy over the top convoluted for no apparent reason at all.

I don't see what the difference would be, beyond 2hd only using 1 weapon with a skill+, over dual wielders having to have two different levels of skill because it is rare. Even then it isn't any different from the norm, since all good gear is rare. All this really does is enhance the skill to the weapon's corresponding level. Dual wielders just need to get two.

[Trumpy]

Also if your left hand has accuracy and attack on it it will apply to both hands, just like 15 dex gets added to the pool of ur dex stat with your gear. the new skill stat will only work for the hand it is equipped on. there have been a few weapons in the past that only worked one way in main hand or woudlnt work at all in the sub slot. I think some of those older TP Bonus items were like that.

[FrankReynolds]

Also if your left hand has accuracy and attack on it it will apply to both hands, just like 15 dex gets added to the pool of ur dex stat with your gear. the new skill stat will only work for the hand it is equipped on. there have been a few weapons in the past that only worked one way in main hand or wouldn't work at all in the sub slot. I think some of those older TP Bonus items were like that.

Cool, but 188 skill equates to how much acc and attack? I'm currently unaware of any offhand dagger, axe, katana, club, sword that comes anywhere near that. Like I said, I could be way off here because I haven't crawled through all the new stuff they added. But, I don't think any amount of dual wield is gonna compensate for a loss like that. I mean twenty dex is not even gonna put a dent in 188 skill.

[Delvish]

Cool, but 188 skill equates to how much acc and attack? I'm currently unaware of any offhand dagger, axe, katana, club, sword that comes anywhere near that. Like I said, I could be way off here because I haven't crawled through all the new stuff they added. But, I don't think any amount of dual wield is gonna compensate for a loss like that. I mean twenty dex is not even gonna put a dent in 188 skill.

Lets go negative then and hit some numbers we DO know. At 99, A+ skill equates to 424 at cap before merits and gear. Now subtract 188. Your skill is then 236 which is the cap at level 67. Try hitting a level 99 something with your skills equivalent to 67. It's hard.

Now here we are with a Club, Axe, GAX, and Scythe with +188 skill. I think you are most concerned with the fact these are the only items out right now with these stats. Come the next update in August, ALL items above 100 will have an appropriate skill adjustment, including ones already out and to include RME when they are released in the future. As Matsui mentioned, the Bayld II weapons will only be in the 40s in skill, but that is their difference in item level from 99. The items out now, probably have an item level difference of 20, so 188 skill.

It is as though we leveled to that item's level, but didn't actually go through the painstaking process of actually skilling.