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Thread: Item Levels

  1. #101
    Player Kraggy's Avatar
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    Kraggy
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    Cerberus
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    THF Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Ziyyigo-Tipyigo View Post
    Interesting that you added the "current" qualifier. Makes it sound like you have on something further down the road.
    He's not saying that at all, what he says right after clearly explains that 'current' in this context means "as it is now", there's nothing to suggest there's a veiled hint that they have any intention of changing it: his entire comment is a blunt "ain't gonna happen" regarding raising the level cap again.
    (0)
    Last edited by Kraggy; 06-26-2013 at 04:01 PM.

  2. #102
    Player sweetidealism's Avatar
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    Lumei
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    Odin
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    RDM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Camate View Post
    [*]It's not possible to play with a small amount of people
    I understand the need for the option of being able to play with a small amount of people as well as the need for ways to obtain new equipment with a small amount of people, and we are putting a very high priority to implement and adjust content so that it be done with a small group of players or solo over time.[/list]
    This is great, but please try your best to make content that cannot ONLY be done with a small amount of people.

    As an example, in Salvage II, as you increase the size of your group, the event becomes far more difficult to complete because you only end up spending more time removing Pathos. Much as I do love the event, I still found this to be a little disappointing, and now find myself yearning for the large scale salvage I knew and loved. Although it's nice to be able to do it reliably with 3 people, I wish that at least one of the new areas had been designed for an alliance of 12-18 people so that players would have that (viably be an) option.
    (Maybe there's still a chance for a "Salvage III" that caters to larger groups?)

    Basically, if possible, then I'd like to see there be large and small scale versions of most if not all events, similar to how Legion has 18-man and 36-man settings!
    (2)
    Last edited by sweetidealism; 06-26-2013 at 04:06 PM.

  3. #103
    Player Byrth's Avatar
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    Byrth
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    Lakshmi
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    DNC Lv 99
    I am going to third or fourth the general "the massive blowback from the community was obviously a result of you choosing the wrong option" sentiment.

    Give us RME updates now. I am looking forward to them more than any of the things you named.

    Why give us mediocre content with mid-high gimmicky difficulty that will eventually be lowered by nerfs anyway? Any fresh account could farm a few thousand bayld, get carried along by his friends to three tojil wins, and buy the best h2h in the game.
    (13)
    Last edited by Byrth; 06-26-2013 at 06:23 PM.

  4. #104
    Player Zhronne's Avatar
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    Character
    Sechs
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    MNK Lv 99
    And also the limited amount of content. I think the majority of people are already bored of spamming Reives (they stopped doing them) or Assignments. Wildkeepers Reive never got much love, Skirmish was broken. Basically all people do are Plasm farming and Delve Megabosses, and the frequency of Plasm Farming runs are greatly reduced compared to the past, at least on my server.
    Maybe it has something to do with how slow you farm Plasm on normal menapo runs compared to how much you can get on boss runs.

    This is all a consequence, a result of their choice to go the "item level" way. Clearly they had already planned it when they released the expansion.
    They should have gone for option one. This way we would have had awesome alternatives to RME weapons, new gear, new content but AT THE SAME TIME we would still have had the option of doing old content, which would still have been relevant, to some extent.

    There was no need at all to increase the level cap, be it through level or through the crappy solution of the item level.

    And it's sad to acknowledge this because it's pretty clear that despite all the feedback we could possibly give in the most constructive and polite way, it's way too late. Too much of the expansion has been planned around the core concept of "Item Level" and they can't turn back now, it's way too late for that.
    And it's sad, so sad, pure sadness.

    No matter how much they will work to "fix" things now or to look for a better compromise, they won't be able to change that initial choice which was absolutely wrong and completely incoherent with what FFXI has been for the past 11 years.
    After doing similar mistakes with Abyssea and after them greatly criticizing it for one reason or another, you'd be leaning to think they learned their lesson.
    This change is happening close to the launch of FFXIV ARR, just like the other one (level cap increase, Abyssea etc) happened around the launch of FFXIV 1.0.
    Now is this a coincidence and I'm a bad, paranoid person for thinking about it, or maybe there's more than meets the eye?

    I feel so sad atm, really, the knowledge that they couldn't possibly fix this even if they wanted to is really hard on me.
    (9)
    And the autumn of life has finally come
    with the promise of winter thaw.

  5. #105
    Player Sarick's Avatar
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    Character
    Saricks
    World
    Fenrir
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    RDM Lv 99
    Why not increase the level cap?
    To be extremely frank, increasing the level cap was never an option.

    So then what were our options?

    Below are the two plans:

    Expand equipment variation laterally
    This would be preserving the original style of the game up until now.
    Keeping relics, mythics, and empyreans at the top, add gear that can be used depending on the situation without creating higher tiers of equipment. No changes to the level 99 cap.


    Boost equipment variation vertically
    This is the current plan.
    Add equipment that surpasses relics, mythics, and empyrean. Player level cap of 99 remains unchanged, but growth takes place via equipment.
    This is where the game went down hill. Over train wrecked the game. It was even stated in the bolded text that the game was changed to suit the new system. There is no longer a sense of positive progression just more Gear gear gear gear to fill the mog house. Stuff that each update will get outdated. Players who used to level up for power made did so for skill.

    Like I said you guys COULD'VE extended on the merit system and this would've allow us to develop without GEAR progression. It wouldn't have created this MESS we have now. I put a line through what ruined the game to make a point. The developers chose the wrong direction IMHO and it made the game much less enjoyable. It restricted everyone to getting new gear and split the player base to the point where you need to kiss serious arse to participate if you're not up to snuff.

    The MERIT system with the right quest and categories would suffice. A simple +1 percent +2% +3% +4% stat boost and other categories would've made it possible for across the board growth. THIS IS JUST AN EXAMPLE. There could be meny other catgories and growth. You could even have your difficulty growth without gear using a system like this. Quest and NMs would allow the players to upgrade categories.

    These fights could randomly drop upgrade items for RME and other upgrades. However when players who've never defeated the boss are in party at that stage the bonuses are BOOSTED.

    To put it frankly, the developers didn't explore all options be it by mistake r the lack of creativity. Needless to say it has damaged the reputation and left a stale taste in some players. This has caused them to leave or think about leaving. It's like food when people say this. I want something that'll stick to my bones. They're saying they want something filling. The item upgrade system lacks insight you get a piece upgrade it then throw it out each stage. In general this creates a dilemma that all work is for naught.

    Most people aren't motivated to see their work thrown away. Look at the game "Quest for Glory" you could transfer your character stats and all to each new expansion. The only difference was that when you got to the next one you was weaker when the baseline stats where raised. This same system could've been utilized in the merit quest system. You would've had players addicted to this type of upgrading.

    To end this NM's and quest that would be used to unlock the scaling system instead of ITEM levels. All in all I think SE made a poor choice with the item progression. No matter how apologist swing it there where other alternatives that would've kept the addictive game play we're used to without completely breaking the game and spitting the player base.

    We've also calculated the necessary parameters you will need to combat these monsters and decided the stats for Adoulin equipment, which is why we've established item levels to make them references for equipment strength.
    The meaning behind content levels and items levels
    Basically, we would like you to use content levels and items levels as a reference when challenging content.

    Though it's a reference, we understand there are aspects that can be covered by certain strategies and ways of playing as well as equipment that is used/collected for their special stats and properties, so this is NOT something that is saying "you definitely cannot do this content without this item level."
    You relay this to the developers let them THINK about using the merit system as a scaling alternative instead of item based scaling. You'll not only save the players frustration but save them valuable mog house space. It's also recreate an addictive game that doesn't force the expansion (other then the quest and boss fights) while obsoleting older content.

    This can be fixed now if item progression stops HERE without much backlash. People can still upgrade their RME's and DELVE gear but their growth would be tied to their character. Not forcing them to wear gear they don't want or throwing stuff away. All the item level system did was decrease the value of gear we owned by making the game force fodder gear.
    (9)
    Last edited by Sarick; 06-26-2013 at 10:24 PM.
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  6. #106
    Player Kojo's Avatar
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    DRK Lv 99
    His comment about having two choices and him choosing #2 (R/M/Es taking a backseat, NOT preserving the original style of the game) is likely to cause more outrage. Secondly, the current UI can display up to lv 255, if memory serves, people used to do it all the time on private servers.

    We want to play FFXI, the game we've enjoyed for years, not something new with 2002 graphics.
    (10)
    Quote Originally Posted by SpankWustler View Post
    Can you imagine waking up each morning knowing that you would have to wrestle a man-sized radish to death in order to eat?
    Sorry, had to.

  7. #107
    Player Sarick's Avatar
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    Saricks
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    Fenrir
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    RDM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Kojo View Post
    His comment about having two choices and him choosing #2 (R/M/Es taking a backseat, NOT preserving the original style of the game) is likely to cause more outrage. Secondly, the current UI can display up to lv 255, if memory serves, people used to do it all the time on private servers.

    We want to play FFXI, the game we've enjoyed for years, not something new with 2002 graphics.
    Everything you said could've been handled fully with the merit based scaling quest. It could be done without increasing the level caps or creating new gear/items to stuff our already overfilled mog safe. Not only that but each job could be independently upgraded allowing people MASSIVE amounts of growth that sticks with them.

    Even neat side grades that unlock traits on other jobs. Say you have RDM leveled you can unlock magic accuracy bonus. Almost as much as getting all characters to level 99 with limit breakers. Instead of limits breaker quest a new merit breaker quest for each job would unlock.

    This would empower the characters by not creating a situation where you MUST constantly upgrade gear to grow. Something most people hate. There is already to much crap in out mog safe.

    It's simple PUT SCALING IN THE MERIT OPTIONS.
    (4)
    Last edited by Sarick; 06-26-2013 at 10:29 PM.
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  8. #108
    Player Kincard's Avatar
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    Kincard
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    Leviathan
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    NIN Lv 99
    Also echoing the "give us a timeframe for REM updates" and the "item levels are a bad idea" sentiment. I thought the dev team understood the complaint when people got worked up over REM changes, but it's like Matsui doesn't care about any of the posts at all. It's more or less the same as when Tanaka was in charge, it's just that this time we'll get advance warning before we get bad patches.

    Obviously its up to the dev team to decide what they want to do with their game, all I want to say is that that idea they have does not interest me in the slightest.
    (7)

  9. #109
    Player Kojo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarick View Post
    Everything you said could've been handled fully with the merit based scaling quest. It could be done without increasing the level caps or creating new gear/items to stuff our already overfilled mog safe. Not only that but each job could be independently upgraded allowing people MASSIVE amounts of growth that sticks with them.

    Even neat side grades that unlock traits on other jobs. Say you have RDM leveled you can unlock magic accuracy bonus. Almost as much as getting all characters to level 99 with limit breakers. Instead of limits breaker quest a new merit breaker quest for each job would unlock.
    Agreed, my suggestion would be for SE to close SoA content, only allow passage into Adoulin but nowhere beyond, and revert all new weapons to the damage rating of the Relic of that type temporarily (eg, Bereaver, Senbaak/+1 = 143 dmg), then scrap the current plans and finish launching FFXIV, come August, start work on the SoA reboot, more in line with the original style of the game.
    (3)
    Quote Originally Posted by SpankWustler View Post
    Can you imagine waking up each morning knowing that you would have to wrestle a man-sized radish to death in order to eat?
    Sorry, had to.

  10. #110
    Player Sarick's Avatar
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    Saricks
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    Fenrir
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    RDM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Kojo View Post
    Agreed, my suggestion would be for SE to close SoA content, only allow passage into Adoulin but nowhere beyond, and revert all new weapons to the damage rating of the Relic of that type temporarily (eg, Bereaver, Senbaak/+1 = 143 dmg), then scrap the current plans and finish launching FFXIV, come August, start work on the SoA reboot, more in line with the original style of the game.
    It's not going to happen they've already put that gear in the wild. It already broke what could've been when they created item scaling. Unless they give players free unlocks to match the scaling they already have people are going to be extremely upset either way.

    Right now the only thing we can hope for is a complete 180 in the decision making process. If there is anyone who supports scaling in merits speak up otherwise the developers will continue done this distructive item based scaling that further degrades the will to play.

    It is destructive.

    1. Creates a class system that separates the player base.

    2. Creates more content to fill the already limited storage.

    3. Forces players to utilize only the current expansion for main growth.

    4. All gear content becomes fodder each passing update as its obsoleted in favor of replacements.

    5. It's not motivating. Growth is one directional you need to get a specific set or sets of gear to scale up.

    I used to be able to mix and match sets from all content. I could generally do well with anything that had good stats. Now we're tied into specific gear sets as a requirement. There is no longer a sense of individuality or personal taste. If you want to get stronger older content isn't even an option. It should just be stored to collect DUST or thrown out.

    I'm not motivated to upgrade because in a few months I'll need to start over upgrading yet another exotic item just so it can get outdated (OBLITERATED) again. At least with a merit based scaling I know that the work I invest in my character will remain there no matter what gear I wear. If this was the direction the developers took people won't be all restricted to new content.

    There doesn't need to be this jump in gear levels. People should be allowed much more diverse setups. If the system was reset back to the basics players would have expanded gear opportunities and the growth would be allocated elsewhere.

    The biggest issue is the opinions of players who flat out cancel instead of speaking up.

    SE look at your subscription numbers, if the numbers are dropping FAST it's because of the design choices are failing. Please listen and make the game better you can't fix this broken system jus abandon it and give the players another approach they'll enjoy. If you don't pull this broken concept out your just digging your grave deeper. Addictive game play will always win over a frustrating world full of boring endless throw away content. If the merit system was the place scaling was sent to then players across the board would benefit in a positive way.

    Making reeves easier isn't going to fix the glaring issues I mention above because we're still being CRAMMED into concepts we don't enjoy. The customer pays the developers to make this game fun and addictive. If it's not working and the subscription base is suffering because of it REMOVE and replace it with something people want. Scrap the garbage item growth even your hardest of hardcore are starting to speak up. Get the hint.
    (8)
    Last edited by Sarick; 06-26-2013 at 11:12 PM.
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