More Paladin-centered shields needed to close the gap with Aegis & Ochain

[Demon6324236]

Harder, yes, more time taking, no.

[Camiie]

It seems so far that the only case for why PLD is broken is people who want the reward without the work, but I guess I'm biased since I put the effort in.

So what's the big deal if you have to make a new shield or the door is opened up to more people being able to play the job effectively? I don't see as you have anything to worry about since you're apparently The Man.

[Demon6324236]

It seems so far that the only case for why PLD is broken is people who want the reward without the work, but I guess I'm biased since I put the effort in.

That is an unfair statement, no one is asking for SE to give them Ochain or Aegis for free, rather they are asking for other shields to be stronger so the gap can be smaller between a normal shield and these two shields. No one is asking for them to hand us the best shields, but to make other shields suck less so that they are more comparable, no one can deny that A&O are so far above other shields that they eclipse them, and while RMED weapons may be better, they are not nearly this much better than their non-RMED counterparts.

[Fynlar]

Harder, yes, more time taking, no.

I don't know if I'd even agree with that, to be honest. It was never easy/fun setting up a Provenance group and I bet it's way worse nowadays. On top of that, you're still dealing with lolvoidwatch drop rates.

[OmnysValefor]

That is an unfair statement, no one is asking for SE to give them Ochain or Aegis for free, rather they are asking for other shields to be stronger so the gap can be smaller between a normal shield and these two shields. No one is asking for them to hand us the best shields, but to make other shields suck less so that they are more comparable, no one can deny that A&O are so far above other shields that they eclipse them, and while RMED weapons may be better, they are not nearly this much better than their non-RMED counterparts.

I don't think you're asking for Ochain or Aegis to be given to you. I do think some people are. There are always people in this game that want the reward without the effort. Those are the people that buy gil, or earn it right, and buy their way through trials.

There's nothing wrong with buying your way through a trial. It's your gil, and the seller's time. If they aren't complaining, noone has a right to but Ochain just happens to be more annoying to buy your way through.

I was also making a deliberately broad and biased statement in reply to an equal statement of the opposite position, but that was made obvious.

[Camiie]

I haven't seen anyone ask for Ochain, Aegis, or even an equivalent to be given away. As Demon said, people are just asking for an enormous gaping hole to be filled.

Although if the shields were completely outclassed by the Delve shield they would only be in the same spot as every other R/M/E except Instruments. Anyone serious about PLD would earn and fully upgrade the Delve shield, and that's not a freebie. Even if you consider it a freebie, it's still just like all the weapons sans Instruments. I really don't see that PLDs would have any room to complain when everyone else with a R/M/E is going through the same thing.

[OmnysValefor]

No choice but to agree with that point. At least one of the +1s is me.

That is definitely where they were going to take the game until the uprising.

Now, RME's dmg is being buffed and the aftermath will again place them on top. From there, SE seems a little unclear but I interperet it as RME are being buffed one time to treat the shock players experienced, and the WS's/aftermaths will move to the other weapons (they said that directly).

However, as others have said, it's unclear how they'd make a shied more powerful than Aegis or Ochain.

Aegis 99 and 95 are literally too powerful. They break the MDT cap and take you to the absolute cap (if you have gear to supplement it, doesn't take much and then there's MDT left over. Granted, this means you can and should fill in other slots with other stats (unless you expect to not have Shell most of the fight and that aspect to be a great issue).

Aegis 99 should have been 40% and 95 35%, speaking as a 95 aegis myself.

Ochain is a powerful shield, it's not technically overpowered, it's just nearly necessary. Paladin isn't that powerful without it.

- - -

Noone here has said "Give me aegis and ochain" but several of the people here are crossposting the same points to other threads, like the VNM upgrade thread. Clearly, they want the shield, they just don't want to put in the work.

It's there, it's obtainable with no more than 2-3 people, and it doesn't take that long if you just set yourself to doing it. Mountains look a lot bigger from the bottom.

[Karah]

Truth be told, I think the problem, isn't the shields themselves, well Aegis is in a category of it's own.

But, the only (obviously) thing that make Ochain so absurdly powerful compared to ALL other shields is paladins (and really all jobs with defensive capabilities) failing at blocking.

Really, if you have a shield, when are you -NOT- going to block with it, ever? However, you can't just give all shields (and parry and guard) a flat increase in activation, at least not by a large %. But that seems to be the only real solution.

A complete re-tool of the way that defensive mechanisms work, not the shields themselves. Can anyone really argue otherwise? There are actually BETTER shields than Ochain, if they had the same or even 90% blockrate.

As for Aegis, I really can't see much in the way of changing or adjusting anything to match it, it truly is a unique piece, and a staple in the pld arsenal.

[Demon6324236]

Only way to bring a shield near Aegis or anything close is to allow another piece to break the cap, or flat out give PLD a higher cap in general so you can stack more on it which would make Aegis have a lesser effect.

[Duelle]

Truth be told, I think the problem, isn't the shields themselves, well Aegis is in a category of it's own.

But, the only (obviously) thing that make Ochain so absurdly powerful compared to ALL other shields is paladins (and really all jobs with defensive capabilities) failing at blocking.

Really, if you have a shield, when are you -NOT- going to block with it, ever? However, you can't just give all shields (and parry and guard) a flat increase in activation, at least not by a large %. But that seems to be the only real solution.

A complete re-tool of the way that defensive mechanisms work, not the shields themselves. Can anyone really argue otherwise? There are actually BETTER shields than Ochain, if they had the same or even 90% blockrate.

As for Aegis, I really can't see much in the way of changing or adjusting anything to match it, it truly is a unique piece, and a staple in the pld arsenal.

I've been mulling over this for quite some time. Shield mechanics as a whole are questionable, not even looking into how shields factor in overall survivability. That's why I said the system seems to be designed around Aegis/Ochain being the best.

I'd personally scrap everything about shields. Size differences and the can of worms that opened, defense values as we know them and so on.

Add shield block rating to determine activation rate regardless of "size" (scaling with something like STR or AGI), with "size" only determining the threshold of damage that is blocked. Player characters gaining an amount of -DT just from equipping the shield would also help with making shields not seem like a waste of a slot for anyone without A skill in shields.

Either way, I agree that defensive mechanics have been odd for a long time.