[dev1143] One-handed and Ranged Weapon Adjustments

[darkhorror]

I don't see how it's too large of a jump in power.

h2h is the only category that doesn't get anything at all in the offhand. No grips, no dw. etc. We can't reach the amount of haste that 2handers can with hasso, which will always keep them at top in damage in anything that matters (for example, the only delve megaboss clears have all been zerg parties; soul voice marches, embrava, etc.)

Except you only need 66% haste to reach cap on MNK, with 25% from gear that means you only need an extra 41% from spells. Marchx2 and Haste spell does that, Embrava and Haste spell puts you at 40% which would mean bard could do attack or acc songs instead.

Oh and spell haste caps at ~43.5% so as long as you are getting haste spell SV marchex2 is a waste, or march, and embrava is also a waste.

[Cream_Soda]

Except you only need 66% haste to reach cap on MNK, with 25% from gear that means you only need an extra 41% from spells. Marchx2 and Haste spell does that, Embrava and Haste spell puts you at 40% which would mean bard could do attack or acc songs instead.

Oh and spell haste caps at ~43.5% so as long as you are getting haste spell SV marchex2 is a waste, or march, and embrava is also a waste.

One post above you brah

was just throwing out haste buffs off the top of my head

[darkhorror]

One post above you brah

Except I was talking about where you said "We can't reach the amount of haste that 2handers can with hasso."

MNK only needs 66% haste to cap haste so doesn't need hasso, with 25% haste gear you don't even need to cap magic haste to cap delay reduction on MNK.

[hiko]

We can't reach the amount of haste that 2handers can with hasso, which will always keep them at top in damage in anything that matters(for example, the only delve megaboss clears have all been zerg parties; soul voice marches, embrava, etc.)

clears report i got set ups:
-type1: anhi/yoichi RNG as main DDs
-type2 : (mnk*2 DD cor brd whm)*2 +magePT

that make more place for mnk than for 2hander

[Zhronne]

I don't see how it's too large of a jump in power.

h2h is the only category that doesn't get anything at all in the offhand. No grips, no dw. etc. We can't reach the amount of haste that 2handers can with hasso, which will always keep them at top in damage in anything that matters (for example, the only delve megaboss clears have all been zerg parties; soul voice marches, embrava, etc.)

And comparing to DW, we get no kinds of stats to put in the offhand at all. Can't add a lower delay wep in the offhand to enhance martial arts. Can't put something with acc/attack/crit damage in the offhand.

There's no reason for the second punch to be treated as an offhand to begin with. There's no bonus for that slot that every other job has access to.

Wow wow wow.... is this really Cream Soda posting? Or an alien troll who took control of his body?
Whoa...

[Oddwaffle]

I think it's time to introduce the long overdue sub slot for H2H: Grip, tape, cloth, warps...whatever name they come up with it.

Mnk: Increase kick attack damage and/or frequency, more martial arts delay bonus, store TP...etc
Pup: Enhance pet effect, haste, accuracy...etc

BTW, Footwork is very very useless now. Any reason why it should not be removed or changed?

[Oddwaffle]

I think what he mean is Mnk has similar or even higher delay in high buff situations than say a 2H weapon job (war or drg for example). This is because the natural delay of empty H2H is 480. If you add in the weapon delay of +86, you get a 566 delay weapon that does not have the bonus of extra TP given by 2H weapon (the TP gain chart shows high TP gain on high delay weapon but doesn't seem to work with H2H). 2H weapon can easily reach 75% delay reduction with Hasso and cap haste (69%? haste) without losing any of the large TP it naturally gives. On the other hand, H2H has higher base delay and suffer from the reduced TP gain from martial arts trait.

I think this is one of the reason why SE is giving very high DPS for H2H weapon.

[Byrth]

Look at this post.

Re-cap:
Monk with 7/8 or 8/8 H2H merits and Rigor Baghnakhs has a base damage per hand of 152 and a base DPS of 33.8 (with 0 Martial Arts traits).
Every other melee Delve weapon has 27.3~27.5 DPS.
Mage Delve weapons have ~23 DPS.

Hand-to-hand has a >20% weapon DPS advantage over other jobs, which they still possess at the delay cap. Monk has the distinction of being essentially the only 1H DD used in endgame at the moment because of this reason and their large HP pools.

Apart from "I want to fill the equipment slot", I can't see any compelling argument for giving "knuckle grips" or whatever other stupid shit monks have proposed over the years.



Nerf monk and buff 1H DDs so that they're all as powerful as monk currently is.

[darkhorror]

Look at this post.

Re-cap:
Monk with 7/8 or 8/8 H2H merits and Rigor Baghnakhs has a base damage per hand of 152 and a base DPS of 33.8 (with 0 Martial Arts traits).
Every other melee Delve weapon has 27.3~27.5 DPS.
Mage Delve weapons have ~23 DPS.

Hand-to-hand has a >20% weapon DPS advantage over other jobs, which they still possess at the delay cap. Monk has the distinction of being essentially the only 1H DD used in endgame at the moment because of this reason and their large HP pools.

Apart from "I want to fill the equipment slot", I can't see any compelling argument for giving "knuckle grips" or whatever other stupid shit monks have proposed over the years.



Nerf monk and buff 1H DDs so that they're all as powerful as monk currently is.

That is the main reason MNK can keep up with 2handers, and it's the reason 1hand jobs fall behind in damage dealing.

[MarkovChain]

There are no 1 handed DD beside MNK. Nin is supposed to be a tank, blu a mage, thf a TH whore, DNC idk but definitely not DD, bst is for solo, pup idk ...

And the issue is not mnk vs other DDs, it's MNk and WAR vs others because let's face it, anything that is not mnk or war has been sucking at DDing for years, hence why nobody plays them.