[dev1143] One-handed and Ranged Weapon Adjustments

[hiko]

With 30% DW delay reduction, and 68.75% haste(25% from gear 43.75% from spells) that puts you at 78.125% Delay reduction. The problem is that if you remove the cap is that it doesn't really add anything unless you add haste samba. And this seems to be the problem where 2hand have things that add more to haste which puts them at or very close to the cap in the same situation. So they get much more TP over time since both are capped but DW removes a lot of the tp per hit.

25+43.5+10=68.5
only sam (empy+2leg) or drk(not full time) can cap haste without an haste sambaer

THF Dual Wielding the sword would be worse than dual wielding a Thief's knife. We would't be able to hit anything in SoA. Sword is 99 Skillpoints behind Dagger

Every job that relies on Dual Wield got screwed. Because H2H and 2Hand weapons are giant leaps ahead in DPS from previous Best weapons and they can make 100% use of that DPS increase with their A rank weapon and Main WS.

Every other Dual wield job has to use inferior weapons and gets a significantly lower dps increase from only being able to use one A ranked Delve weapon.

no dual wield don't have to use an inferior weapon, not when before update it's already benn mathed that single wield > DW a pre SoAweapon and that update increase that gap (lower attack offhand)

[Nebo]

no dual wield don't have to use an inferior weapon, not when before update it's already benn mathed that single wield > DW a pre SoAweapon and that update increase that gap (lower attack offhand)

Even if that were true (It's not btw, Single wielding a Delve dagger is not more DPS than dual wielding other pre-elve daggers), inferior in this case refers to its poor damage relative to other DD's that do not have to deal with this setback.

The dual wield scenario right now is inferior in every possible way in terms of accessing delve.

[darkhorror]

25+43.5+10=68.5
only sam (empy+2leg) or drk(not full time) can cap haste without an haste sambaer

25+43.5+10=78.5

[Nebo]

I do actually think 1-handers should be weaker than 2-handers in the right situations

I disagree.

When you have a game like this with all kinds of different DD job (that take so much time and effort to build up and gear well), making a select few fundamentally more powerful than all the rest just leads to the job exclusion that we currently have.

I always see people arguing that 1-handers have more utility but this really isn't true. And even if it were, no 1-hander job has utility that is currently worth replacing a better DD slot.

Melee utility without viable DD potential is really no utility at all.

But even looking at the current #1 "Heavy DD" most ppl ask for: DRK, they are sitting on crap tons of utility in addition to their firepower.

• They can stun and weapon bash (arguably one of the most useful secondary tools a dd can have).
• They can deal physical, magical and non-elemental damage.
• They have a unique line of absorb Debuff/buffs that contains many useful spells.
• They have a selection of weapons like Apoc and Twilight that allow them to adapt to various situations and play styles.
• They have JA's to buff their party against Arcana and enfeeble arcana.
• DRK can Sleep/Break and help with crowd control
• Dispel+absorb enhancement effects
• Dread spikes

The list goes on.

Don't get me wrong, this is not me crying "overpowered" at DRK. I have always been of the belief that melee DDs should all be relatively competitive in terms of DD potential and differentiated by play style and secondary utility features.

I don't believe that a job like THF should be a weak DD because it has a weak RNG enhancing trait like Treasure Hunter, just the same as I don't believe that DRK's attack power should be brought down because it has all these other utility aspects.

[Kincard]

You are correct that the heavy jobs have utility of their own, but I was more referring to the ability for light DDs to do better than 2Hers when you're sparse on buffs (so basically Salvage and erm...Dynamis and Skirmish, maybe, all depends on if you have a BRD basically). So they either have to balance out both sides or make it so that the difference between light DDs and heavy DDs is small enough that people don't care.

[Ophannus]

I think they didnt include offhand because usually dual wielding gives higher +stats than 2handed does. Like you can mainhand a 99 emp that gives +25 to a stat then offhand a magian with +22 attack and 11 STR. No 2hand+grip combo gives a stat bonus that large.

[darkhorror]

I think they didnt include offhand because usually dual wielding gives higher +stats than 2handed does. Like you can mainhand a 99 emp that gives +25 to a stat then offhand a magian with +22 attack and 11 STR. No 2hand+grip combo gives a stat bonus that large.

Yeah but the damage of offhand is usually lower anyway so you do get some extra stats but you lose on the base damage.

[Nebo]

I think they didnt include offhand because usually dual wielding gives higher +stats than 2handed does. Like you can mainhand a 99 emp that gives +25 to a stat then offhand a magian with +22 attack and 11 STR. No 2hand+grip combo gives a stat bonus that large.

2 hand bonus by virtue of being 2 handers get a much larger base damage boost from capping fSTR, benefit more from STP and haste and immensely powerful WS spam and native job abilities and traits that enhance att acc etc.

No amount of stats on an offhand weapon is going to make up for this.

Speaking of immensely powerful WS spam, most "Heavy DDs" also get WS MODs that actually make sense (STR) and allow them to triple dip with WS MODS, fSTR and Attack just by stacking STR. Whereas current best non RME dagger WS is AGI for example, which only adds base damage and forces you to try and play catch-up elsewhere for other vital stats.

No offhand weapon stats will make up for this either.

On top of all of this...with this update 2 Handers will STILL be getting more ATT from STR, which is why this exclusion of STR => ATT adjustment from the offhand is unreasonable.

You are probably right. That is probably their reason. But it's either because they don't understand or didn't consider these mechanics in the scope of this update, or because they want 1 handers to stay fundamentally weaker.

[Kincard]

Speaking of immensely powerful WS spam, most "Heavy DDs" also get WS MODs that actually make sense (STR) and allow them to triple dip with WS MODS, fSTR and Attack just by stacking STR.

lol yeah, they kinda screwed a lot of the one-handers with their WSs.

There's stuff like Ninja where you get an AGI-based Crit weapon skill and a DEX-based non Crit weapon skill with an attack penalty. If high DEX is supposed to be a boon for one-handers you'd think they let us capitalize on it more. >_>

The WSs that get multiple dips are CDC, Mercy Stroke, Stacked Rudra's and Ruinator. Holy shit they got it so right with Ruinator- make every other one-hander WS more like Ruinator.

[Demon6324236]

There's stuff like Ninja where you get an AGI-based Crit weapon skill and a DEX-based non Crit weapon skill with an attack penalty.

I personally like to delude myself into thinking that the Bow and Katana WSs got confused somehow by the people who were programing the WSs, and SE still has yet to notice, that's why we have a crit WS based on AGI for NIN, and a crit WS based on DEX for RNG.