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Thread: Aegis > RUN

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    Player Zagen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    1,165
    Character
    Zagen
    World
    Bismarck
    Main Class
    PUP Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
    RUN does indeed only need 14% to hit the -50% MDT cap which is accomplished by a simple Dring + Twilight torque or something similar meaning again... MDB in all other available slots.
    I find it funny you even bring up Defending Ring, generally that ring is excluded because of it's rarity but hey if a RUN can use it so can an Aegis PLD!

    Shellra V = 27%
    Defending Ring = 10%
    Aegis 99 = 50%
    Total = 87% (.5% short of the cap Aegis allows)

    Look it only takes PLD 2 gear slots too except that 1 gear slot allows it to surpass the 50% cap that RUN is stuck at.

    By the way that's full time before you bring up Valiance. If Valiance could be full timed that would be a different story as that should always actually be better (assuming only 1 element is used by the monster) than an Aegis 99 PLD's reduction but it isn't full time its 3/5 minutes.

    Already overall better than RUN and I haven't even brought up the 65% block rate or that it's a size 5 shield.

    Quote Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
    I also still think its funny that we're comparing a job that's been out since 2003 that's had numerous changes and 10 years of gear under its belt to something that came out recently and has nothing specifically made for them
    You realize we're comparing it to that because at the moment that job in the context of the OP is the "magical tank" which is what RUN was pegged to be.

    Quote Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
    As far as Tax'et is concerned no tank is going to hold hate off Heavy-DDs unless they're severely gimping themselves... the idea is to keep hate off your support(in the event heavy DDs die) and to hold hate during the exuv phase... Capping and Maintaining capped VE is extremely easy so tanking in full PDT is perfectly fine.
    You're right not even a PLD is going to hold hate off the DDs once they're brought in to kill this NM however a PLD will hold it much better than a RUN would while trying to remove it's PDT. Also those DDs give up much less than a RUN does when using a hybrid PDT/Haste build.

    Quote Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
    Lets go over your hate tools and their numbers....
    These are all base numbers assuming you didn't macro in Enmity gear which I do.

    Gambit: CE 640, VE 1280
    Flash: CE 180, VE 1280
    Provoke: CE 1, VE 1800
    Rune Enchantments: 80 CE, 320 VE
    Vallation: 450 CE, 900 VE
    Liement: 450 CE 900VE
    Valiance: 450 CE, 900VE per target hit (hitting the entire PT is 2700 CE, 5400 VE)
    One for all: 160 CE, 320 VE per target hit
    Swordplay: 160 CE, 320 VE
    Warcry: 1 CE, 300 VE per target hit
    Elemental Sforzo: 1800 CE, 7200 VE
    every buff you recast: ~1 CE, 300 VE
    Correct me if I'm wrong but None of PLDs abilities even generate CE over 1 aside from Invincible?
    You are correct though I crossed out the abilities that aren't exclusive to RUN. That said you're the only person who's brought up the notion that a RUN needs to justify it's ability to generate hate, except that was never the question.

    Quote Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
    I'm addressing the complaint that RUN cant tank ANYTHING in the new content that's been said multiple times and is completely untrue.
    I see the problem here, we didn't say it couldn't tank anything hell a WHM could tank the new content with proper support to allow that to work. Is that a good idea? No. The issue is that a RUN can't tank anything better than a DD let alone an Aegis PLD which is what a player thinks of when you hear "magical tank".


    Quote Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
    And reapplying stoneskin and aquaveil really isn't hard at all. You have flash for when you accidentally let aquaveil drop but remember its -100% SIR for a set number of hits depending on enhancing skill. I get 3 Hits uninterrupted and only get hit 1-2 times during casting so alternating the 2 is completely feasible
    Aquaveil does what against stun or knock backs? Nothing.
    Flash gives the monster -100~ ACC which sounds awesome until you consider just how much Accuracy those monsters have to make THF/NIN/DNC evasion tanking unappealing let alone RUN evasion tanking.

    Assuming you're not in an evasion build (as you mention a PDT build) the monster's accuracy would have to be 378 for flash to floor it to 20%, 437 for flash to drop it to 50%. Obviously I'm over simplifying but considering a player has much more than 437 accuracy naked (besides weapon) what makes you think a monster's accuracy is that bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
    Oh and consistant PDT
    ToM Gsword -13%
    Twilight Neck -5%
    Mollusca Mantle -5%
    Flume Belt -4%
    Dux Head Body Hands Legs -13%
    Thurandaut feet -3%
    My crappy dark rings -9%
    52% 2% over cap // meaning 7% missing from not having dux+1 and 2x 6 pdt dark rings and a -2% pdt earring (<3 ethereal too much to do 2 pdt earrings) giving you 11% of room to play with some slots
    Here's PLD's PDT build:

    Defending Ring = 10%
    Mekira Meikogai = 8%
    Phorcys Schuhs = 5%
    Twilight Torque = 5%
    TotM Sword = 11%
    Dark Ring = 6%
    Mollusca Mantle = 5%

    Total = -50% PDT and it leaves the head, hands, legs, waste, ears, ammo open for ACC and/or haste (technically this is a build for WAR, PLD, DRK, BST, SAM, DRG if you replace the TotM Sword respectively). I intentionally excluded PLD's emp armor as RUN has none atm before someone tries to call me out on that.

    Oh and again I haven't even factored in the 65% block rate with a size 5 shield. Hell even an AH shield would offer more to physical damage reduction than Inquartata.
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    Last edited by Zagen; 06-06-2013 at 05:29 AM. Reason: bad math :(