Aegis > RUN

[nyheen]

RUN is not a tank, will never be a tank, and was never a tank. Those who think it is or will be don't have the slightest clue what a tank is or what's involved with being one.

who told you that?

[Kojo]

RUN is not a tank, will never be a tank, and was never a tank. Those who think it is or will be don't have the slightest clue what a tank is or what's involved with being one.

While I agree that RUN cannot tank in it's current condition, it WAS meant to be a tank, it was introduced as such by SE.

EDIT:
1. Not sure if trolling.
2. Please, for the love of Altana and her five albino children, DO NOT make RUN another DWer or Sword job.
3. RUN is a very unaesthetic job. Available armor looks bad.

[Vivivivi]

What are you smoking vivi?

Coffeecake muffin crumbs (+1) of course.

[saevel]

While I agree that RUN cannot tank in it's current condition, it WAS meant to be a tank, it was introduced as such by SE.

EDIT:
1. Not sure if trolling.
2. Please, for the love of Altana and her five albino children, DO NOT make RUN another DWer or Sword job.
3. RUN is a very unaesthetic job. Available armor looks bad.

No, that's another one of those misunderstandings people have. SE never said anything about RUN holding hate, they just mentioned that it would take reduced elemental damage. SE doesn't know what a tank is.

A tanks' job is the following
#1 Hold Hate off squishy back liners
#2 Kill Target as quick as feasible
#3 Reducing damage to conserve healer resources

Prior to the term "tank" being used it was known as "meat shield" in D&D and then Everquest. It was a heavy armor wearing melee that would keep the target monster busy and away from the soft squishy cloth wearing mages. SE (and the intellectually challenged) somehow confuse a melee with defense properties for a "tank".

Now according to the above universal tanking requirements, as set forth ages ago by the first party orientated game, RUN does not fit any of those. their sole defensive ability is they can get high magic evasion towards one element of magic while still being vulnerable to the other seven. Congrats your worse then an evasion stacking NIN tanking Byakko in 2005.

[Rezeak]

I love how your comparing it to PLD, I mean it's so far off being a main tank atm that a DRK with an Apoc is a better tank atm.

Either way, until AF,emp gear, merits are added to RUN it's hard to say it'll never be a tank.

[saevel]

Either way, until AF,emp gear, merits are added to RUN it's hard to say it'll never be a tank.

You can give then Enmity +100 and they still wouldn't be a "tank". The job is fundamentally borked and would need a major PUP & SCH level redesign to be that. Not saying that SE can't go back to the drawing board, they did twice already, but if they did whatever came out would only vaguely resemble what we have now. That's why I mentioned turning them into a non-elemental type melee. There are fights they would end up "tanking" so to speak if only because they would be dealing so much more damage then anyone else the monster would have no choice but to pay attention to them. Previously entire strats were build around DRK's using twilight scyth to bypass -PDT and other damage restrictions, that's a big enough niche for a job like RUN to fit right into. Hell give them a JA based move similar to formless strikes but without the damage penalty. Have them deal non-physical damage and every-time they take magic damage have it act like misery on WHM, fill up a buffer that can then be deplete in a big attack.

[Babekeke]

People keep on saying how RUN can only mitigate damage from 1 element at a time...

... which is wrong of course.

#1 barspell: Cast by yourself if solo, or by a whm if in a party. (yes, every party member can get this too).

#2 Build up 3 runes of a different element and use Valiance or Vallation. (Valliance also helps out the rest of the party, but you need the RUN there to use it).

#3 Build up 3 more runes of a third element.

#4 If a spell comes in of one of the other elements, hit one for all.

#5 If mob uses Chainspell, hit Elemental Sforzo (RUN is the best job for tanking chainspell for this reason alone... if it can get/hold hate, which shouldn't be too hard when you pop Ele Sforzo anyway).

Not just 1 element.

Edit: Oh not to mention that we only need 14% -MDT in gear to cap MDT when using Shell V on ourselves with Embolden. (even less if it stacks with effects of Sheltered ring)

[Zagen]

People keep on saying how RUN can only mitigate damage from 1 element at a time...

... which is wrong of course.

#1 barspell: Cast by yourself if solo, or by a whm if in a party. (yes, every party member can get this too).

#2 Build up 3 runes of a different element and use Valiance or Vallation. (Valliance also helps out the rest of the party, but you need the RUN there to use it).

#3 Build up 3 more runes of a third element.

#4 If a spell comes in of one of the other elements, hit one for all.

#5 If mob uses Chainspell, hit Elemental Sforzo (RUN is the best job for tanking chainspell for this reason alone... if it can get/hold hate, which shouldn't be too hard when you pop Ele Sforzo anyway).

Not just 1 element.

Edit: Oh not to mention that we only need 14% -MDT in gear to cap MDT when using Shell V on ourselves with Embolden. (even less if it stacks with effects of Sheltered ring)

Okay effectively mitigate damage from 1 element at a time. Hell your own example shows how RUN could poorly reduce the damage of up to 4 types of magic for 3/5 minutes. Someone mentioned Abyssea earlier and honestly that's the only place where RUN can tank based on what it currently has as native defensive capabilities. Yay a tank for 3 year old content...

Nothing a RUN currently has to offer is of any value as a tank, dd, or support when compared to other jobs filling those roles.

It's a fun job but that sure as hell doesn't make it magically work at what we were told it was going to do. The job is lacking sorely and if it was supposed to be a magical tank it sure as hell should be more useful than an Aegis PLD (I'm not even talking full time -87.5% MDT for a given element).

[Calamity]

SCH and DNC were released after ToAU, yet their mythics involve the same method of obtainment as every other job. Why should one believe that RUN and GEO will get their own unique 6-month-long questline to obtain a weapon which will be replaced by whatever comes after delve?

While you are correct that dnc and sch were added after the release of ToAU, they were released and established well prior to the release of Mythic weapons. As I said, this is the first ever example of a new r/m/e weapon being added to those that existed from the very beginning. Anything is possible.

Stop sayin this i posted a link showin that SE calls them Mythics because they are the things of myth and legend as they are part of Balranh's collection. Heres the link again its in the frist 5 lines http://www.playonline.com/pcd/topics...20/detail.html

Mythic does not describe the weapon itself but specificly its origin

Old words from an old era and an old producer. If Tanaka was still in charge, this might be a valid argument. However, if there's anything the past couple months should have taught you, it's that the policies laid down by Tanaka, have little to no influence whatsoever on what Matsui does with the game.

And in the end, they could come out with a completely new kind of weapon, with a completely new kind of quest and give it only to RUN and GEO and call it a mythic, and you know what? At that point it doesn't matter what you or I or anyone else wants to call it. If SE says it's a mythic, then that will be exactly what is it.

[Yinnyth]

People keep on saying how RUN can only mitigate damage from 1 element at a time...

... which is wrong of course.

#1 barspell: Cast by yourself if solo, or by a whm if in a party. (yes, every party member can get this too).

#2 Build up 3 runes of a different element and use Valiance or Vallation. (Valliance also helps out the rest of the party, but you need the RUN there to use it).

#3 Build up 3 more runes of a third element.

#4 If a spell comes in of one of the other elements, hit one for all.

#5 If mob uses Chainspell, hit Elemental Sforzo (RUN is the best job for tanking chainspell for this reason alone... if it can get/hold hate, which shouldn't be too hard when you pop Ele Sforzo anyway).

Not just 1 element.

Edit: Oh not to mention that we only need 14% -MDT in gear to cap MDT when using Shell V on ourselves with Embolden. (even less if it stacks with effects of Sheltered ring)

They say that because magic evasion is fairly lacking. The boost to the strength of runes was a big help, but the truth is that enemies have enough magic accuracy to punch a hole through RUN's magic evasion even if they have the same barspell and runes all stacked together. Yes, a runefencer could go for slight resistance to several elements instead of large resistance to one. Heck, you could even put up 3 different runes and keep vallation/valiance up on yourself to take 15% less damage (multiplied, not added to MDT). Then every 3 minutes, you could also absorb the damage from a spell by using liement.

Aegis PLD takes 1/8 normal magic damage from any element all the time without fussing with runes or responding to changing battle conditions. Yes, a RUN could put up 3 runes, vallation, then put up 3 different runes, but that would take them a minute to do while you're getting hammered by amnesia, paralyze, sleep, and elemental damage that you don't have your runes up for yet. Plus, if you're not stacking your barspell and runes together, you're only going to get about 150 m.eva for each element. Your resist rate will be pretty low. Aegis works 100% of the time.